Chinese cars

lordrobs said:
I think brands like MG will struggle if tariffs mean that they lose their main USP, being cheaper than the competition.

That said, initial signs are that they'll simply be built in kit form in Eastern Europe to swerve the tariffs anyway.
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Domestic content clauses normally go into trade deals and tariff negotiations to prevent/reduce this type of thing.
 
MG (unlike other Chinesew haven't disclosed the information on subsidies they maybe exploiting in the manufacture of their car to Ursula, so they get a big tarif - doesn't seem unfair.

we still don't know if Starmer is adopting same tarifs as his new besties in the eu.
 
Can you please at least refer to the correct entities when making your mindless rambling.

Ursula is a character in The Little Mermaid and contrary to what you may think, the EU is not ran by a witch from under the sea.

Likewise we also don’t live in a dictatorship, the U.K. government is far more than just Kier Starmer. This isn’t party political either so why are you making it so? U.K. foreign policy hasn’t shifted even an inch since the change of government.
 
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just checked spelling - but if he doesn't know who Ursula is in the context of chinese tarifs ! albeit I always think of Dr No.
 
had thought this was interesting about chinese native sales ... with new byd office in peterborough

Preliminary wholesale data for last month released by the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA) put the sales of new energy vehicles (NEV) in China during November at 1.46 million. NEV is the umbrella term used in China to apply to any electrified car and, therefore, largely consists of both BEVs and PHEVs.

The November figure was a 51% increase year-on-year, but the month-on-month increase was a much less impressive 6%. Current figures show that the penetration rate for NEVs during November was 53.3%.

Significantly, there are now 3 producers that sold over 100,000 in one month, with Changan also just below t
BYD 504,003
Geely 122,453
SAIC-GM-Wuling 113,998
Changan 98,494
Tesla China 78,856
Chery 72,323
Li Auto 48,740
GAC Aion 42,301
Leapmotor 40,169
Dongfeng 36,729
Seres 36,842
Great Wall 35,885
Xpeng 30,895
Nio 20,575
Xiaomi 20,000 (estimated)
.....
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b0rn2sk8 said:
TLDW for those of who don’t want watch random YouTube videos on a random Chinese brand that isn’t available in the UK?
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Apparently they had plans to launch in UK, not sure if it arrived or not

They are owned by Baidu, launch their flagship EV with 800km range and priced at just $28k, but only sold 500 cars per month and 3 months later went bankrupt when Baidu pulled funding due to low sales

the car market is China is extremely saturated and this trend is expected to continue - for perspective, there is currently 13 car manufacturers in the USA, in China they have nearly 600 and you don't need that many car companies
 
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jpaul said:
had thought this was interesting about chinese native sales ... with new byd office in peterborough
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Sales of pure EV (not hybrid) will accelerate faster now in China due to new rules. From last month, all cars in China that use fuel now have to do an additional annual test in which they check that the operation of the vehicle is working as it did when it was new, if the vehicle fails the test, the owner is told to repair and come back, if the vehicle fails the test 3 times, the vehicle is seized by the state and gets destroyed for scrap metal. Due to the vehicle needing to work without any issue, minor things like a door window motor not working will cause a fail, or air conditioning not working will cause a fail etc and also any and all error codes stored in the ECU also = test fail


These rules do not apply to EV's, so people are now buying EVs because it's a big hassle trying to restore old petrol cars to their original new condition to pass the test. There are even cases last month of 1 year old petrol cars failing this test 3 times in a row as the dealer couldn't figure out the issue and the car gets seized by the state and scraped, and you lose your money
 
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Actually coal power stations pollute a lot less than ICE cars per unit of energy produced - they maintain higher temperature and have a lot more filters.

China is by far the world leader in production and installation of solar panels, wind turbines and other renewable energy tech.

 
adam cool dude said:
Gotta offset those 1161+ coal power stations in China ;)
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Yeah embarrassing, what is more embarrassing is in 2023 China installed 239GW of solar, and the total installed capacity of all types of generation the UK is ~74.8GW. Build coal plants to make power to build clean things, and take the dirty things off line so they no longer have to import vast quantities of coal from Australia etc.

It's said they (China) are such a complete waste of space politically, so people forget the can actually do good things as well.
 
There is also mounting evidence that importing gas ( like we do) is actually worse than coal. LNG specifically is 33% worse than coal in terms of emissions.

Exported gas produces far worse emissions than coal, major study finds | Fossil fuels | The Guardian

Research challenges idea that sending liquefied natural gas around the world is cleaner alternative to burning coal
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

(Source)https://scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ese3.1934

Part of the reason is methane is ~80 times as powerful as CO2 as a greenhouse gas and the latest estimates suggest at least 3.5% of it escapes from the supply chain before it’s burnt which is significantly up on previous estimates.

Don’t forget we just closed our last coal power station and favour importing LNG for America instead as it’s ‘cleaner’ when it really isn’t. So let’s stop the ‘yeh but China burns loads of coal’ nonsense because we really are not any better.
 
dlockers said:
Where did you sell your acc and how much could I get?
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That's a fair criticism, so let me address it despite it being off topic.

I'm not a fan of dictatorships - IMHO it's quite silly that in 21st century regimes such as those in North Korea, China, Russia, Turkey, etc. exist at all.

Politically China IMHO is very silly - with their credit rating on steroids, the corruption in the communist party, the online and offline censorship, CCTVs, mobile phone spying, etc.

But China is a real danger to our way of life. If they are successful in their effort to dominate key industries of the future (like EVs, genetic engineering, renewable energy, AI, semiconductors, space etc.), build a strong alliance with Russia, make most of the countries in Africa, South America and Asia economically dependent - China has a real opportunity to become the world's single superpower, as US seem set on internal conflict and possibly long term decline.

When I started this thread just 15 months ago a lot of people reaction was "German cars are and will always be the best. Nobody would buy a Chinese car.". But now the tariffs to stop Chinese EV imports are a key element in the politics in EU and USA. In those countries that don't introduce tariffs, Chinese companies will very quickly replace the traditional European, American and Japanese car makers. Chinese EVs cost literally half compared to a similar spec cars from Stellantis, Ford, VW or Toyota.

If you look at the UK market MG is the fastest growing car brand. You want to buy a fun to drive EV hatchback, or a small EV SUV with leather seats, or many other car market segments - the only sensible option is MG.

So I think it will be very challenging to find a way to cooperate with China on handling global warming on one hand and not allow them to become a world dominant economic, technological and political superpower on the other.
 
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