Chinese cars

413x said:
Well that's the choice.
Do You lower tariffs to get serious on hitting green targets. Or do you protect the economy? Which will suffer if we don't have to world wide net climate improvement?

Is BYD not subject to nearly 20pc tariffs?
Edit: that's EU. Looks like UK is only 10pc.
In which case they aren't really in the running.

Aside. Why not buy one now? I'd never fork out 45k for a car. I still require used EVs with decent ranges to drop well below 20k to even consider getting one.

Although our current car is on its last legs so may need to think about what comes next.
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Green targets are not really about just flooding the market with cheap cars and exporting your carbon.

A second hand buyer. So tariffs, new car prices etc are irrelevant to you. Always people expecting others to buy new cars so they can get them later. It’s a weird thing people think a car is good value for money etc based on new price but actually never intend to buy said car new and hence have zero impact on new car sales

We should have local produced cars that aren’t shipped half way across the world in diesel burning cargo ships if you really wanted to worry about the climate. Win win
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
As ever?! Get real pal. I peaked over last few years and recently have some absolutely clown comments, no replies to salient points and other saying I don’t have a job. So you’ll have to forgive my lack of GAF for the new breed of musk sympathising armchair politicians. You still think your opinions are facts so no need to debate as I can’t get to your level of ignorance. My value is correction of the clueless.
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Take a break, sounds like you need it.

I assume your comment about being a musk sympathiser isn’t aimed at me given I don’t think I’ve posted anything positive about Musk for quite some time, long before his current outburst. If I had it certainly wasn’t intentional.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
So basically your view of a new car purchase and existing brand power compared to new china stuff is basically irrelevant.
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Basically yes.

Simon said:
Green targets are not really about just flooding the market with cheap cars and exporting your carbon.

A second hand buyer. So tariffs, new car prices etc are irrelevant to you. Always people expecting others to buy new cars so they can get them later. It’s a weird thing people think a car is good value for money etc based on new price but actually never intend to buy said car new and hence have zero impact on new car sales

We should have local produced cars that aren’t shipped half way across the world in diesel burning cargo ships if you really wanted to worry about the climate. Win win
Click to expand...

You'd expect new price to be reflective of used price on average. Sure some cars tank. In price and others hold their value we'll. But all being equal you'd expect the cheapest cars made today to still be the cheapest in 10 years time.

Actually just had a look at used evs. Wow. The prices really have cratered.
The range I want seems a lot more affordable than a year ago.

And yes, I do expect people to want their brand new cars at that premium on subscription so that I can get one at a decent price later.
That works For everyone.


Cars produced in the UK would be so expensive they wouldn't sell.
You'd have to whack such high tariffs to make competitors cost comparable.

Also.
Wouldn't we have to import all the raw Materials anyway?
 
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Loads of cars are produced in uk and sell?

Yes parts need moving around but you can localise a lot. Create jobs for the assembly AND suppliers. Even UK make parts for EU built cars. Remember a car is full of air too. Not very efficient to move.

The rest of your points I don’t really understand. New cars Premium on subscription so other people can get them cheap? Why’s tariffs do anything to second hand cars. VAT changes didn’t
 
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chinese selling technique into the uk does impact 2nd hand market prices to wit. you sell your new cars (like byd, or vw, I suppose) into the fleet market at a reduced rrp price
now with a mftr buy-back option to protect lease company (who had been burned), you then have a supply of second hand cars to drip onto second hand market through your dealers
at prices you choose, and obtain some additional revenue, to offset initial fleet sale and keep a good lifetime revenue.
(tesla in usa reputed to have stopped their end of lease purchase option to try and assure an approved used vehicle market for themselves)


[ Wondered if there is an analogy between international snythetic drug dealing and the chinese imports - you set up distribution get the customer introductory deals to get hooked on your product,
local competition wiped out, and you have an ongoing revenue. ]
 
You make this stuff up right ? The OEM taking on the loss to avoid the lease company having it. Then selling cars at high second hand prices to make it up the gap with no issue to demand ??
 
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413x said:
Well that's the choice.
Do You lower tariffs to get serious on hitting green targets. Or do you protect the economy? Which will suffer if we don't have to world wide net climate improvement?

Is BYD not subject to nearly 20pc tariffs?
Edit: that's EU. Looks like UK is only 10pc.
In which case they aren't really in the running.

Aside. Why not buy one now? I'd never fork out 45k for a car. I still require used EVs with decent ranges to drop well below 20k to even consider getting one.

Although our current car is on its last legs so may need to think about what comes next.
Click to expand...
Thinking about this. Why a Choice. You make out only China can build EVs. There’s enough reasons and legislation in place for anyone to fill the order book.
 
413x said:
Basically yes.



You'd expect new price to be reflective of used price on average. Sure some cars tank. In price and others hold their value we'll. But all being equal you'd expect the cheapest cars made today to still be the cheapest in 10 years time.

Actually just had a look at used evs. Wow. The prices really have cratered.
The range I want seems a lot more affordable than a year ago.

And yes, I do expect people to want their brand new cars at that premium on subscription so that I can get one at a decent price later.
That works For everyone.


Cars produced in the UK would be so expensive they wouldn't sell.
You'd have to whack such high tariffs to make competitors cost comparable.

Also.
Wouldn't we have to import all the raw Materials anyway?
Click to expand...

I think part of it is most people who want and can own an EV already have one, and they mostly lease new ones. Everyone else either cannot afford it, or don't have a place to charge it. So there demand for used ones is low and they sit around on forecourts for ages.
 
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Simon said:
You make this stuff up right ? The OEM taking on the loss to avoid the lease company having it.
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no that's what they are having to do now - lease companies were p*** off with losses - I had posted on it before
e: and the lease companies were/are having to finance service/repair facilities
e2: it's like the lease companies pcp the car from manufacturer
 
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Nasher said:
I think part of it is most people who want and can own an EV already have one, and they mostly lease new ones. Everyone else either cannot afford it, or don't have a place to charge it. So there demand for used ones is low and they sit around on forecourts for ages.
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Agreed, the demand by the 3Fs* has already been met and no-one else that wants one can afford one.

* Fanboys, Fleets and Freebies.
 
jpaul said:
LOL : I had checked news was still there eg just google fleet leasing companies ev buy-back
e: few sc to find old post
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You made out it was China oem specific.

That link has no information other than a headline.
 
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Terminal_Boy said:
Agreed, the demand by the 3Fs* has already been met and no-one else that wants one can afford one.

* Fanboys, Fleets and Freebies.
Click to expand...

Yep, as a freebie it's great. But would I buy an EV with my own money right now? No lol. I'd rather not have the inconvenience or huge financial hit of owning it.
 
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jpaul said:
no that's what they are having to do now - lease companies were p*** off with losses - I had posted on it before
e: and the lease companies were/are having to finance service/repair facilities
e2: it's like the lease companies pcp the car from manufacturer
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You do realise that lease companies don't pay the RRP? The main problem at the moment is silly prices for brand new EV cars. A 40k car becoming 20k in three years doesn't mean a 20k loss for the lease company.
 
yes of course they don't , they still needed an additional buy back incentive though, and had had to setup UK servicing facilities for BYD lease clients.
maybe there needs to be a ethics investigation into what they do pay, as an indication of when premium car tax should really be owed(if the 75% sold as lease cars parts hands for much less than rrp),
seems like a cartel.

I'm not unconvinced vag aren't offering the same with those £400 id7 deals and redundancies in the offing - keep the production line running, and stop the money going to china + avoid zev fines.
 
Discounts vary across the sector. Traditionally cars placed into daily rental attracted the highest discounts -sometimes between 32-38%. It was really last resort place to sell cars into as they were almost loss making. Motability was next with discounts between 20-30%. Some big fleet deals would be in that territory and this would include cars going into the big lease co's. Buybacks in rental used to be common place for maybe a portion of the volume. It's a way of protecting the residual values and stopping the market getting flooded with supply of really cheap cars. Cars sold to Joe Public via dealer (Retail) would attract discounts of up to 22% - that include the dealer margin, bonuses and promotional spend such as #upfront discounts or subsidised finance.
No-one has 35% margin in an EV (at least in mainstream) - hence the price inflation.
 
Better to sell a car at a small loss than no car

Then of course there more cars to service later…


What’s your actual job jpaul?
 
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