Chinese cars

Diddums said:
Absolutely, the Chinese can make seriously high quality stuff when paid to do it, but let's be honest, the ratio of absolute tosh to quality goods coming out of China is still vastly skewed towards the former. I'm not saying they only make rubbish cars, simply that it'll take a lot for me to be convinced. They're still fairly new on the market, we don't have enough data to make an informed decision.

Yet.
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It will take 10 to 20 years of building solid, reliable cars to change peoples minds. For a long time in the west people believed South Korean cars were complete rubbish, it look a long time for them to change the perception, just like it will take a long time to change perception of new brand Chinese cars, especially when it's these brands that just started up and they have no history - you're not buying a BMW here you're buying a no-name brand that can disappear in the gutter tommorow

That's why starting a new car brand is not cheap, it costs billions and will take over 10 years to make a profit. Tesla had to take billions in US government subsidies, go public and suck billions more from investors just to try and stay alive long enough to become the first new US car company to make a profit in 70 years
 
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Maybe you're right, but I have a different opinion.

Making an EV is far simpler than making an ICEV, which gives better chances for new companies to compete with the established ones. The electric motor is far simpler and has far fewer parts than a petrol or a diesel motor. One can license complete car software from the likes of Huawei, Microsoft, Intel, Qualcomm. Even the established brands buy most of the car parts - batteries, gear boxes, seats, wheels, etc. from third parties. Starting a new car company and turning profit in China takes a lot less money - millions, not billions.

A few years ago people in the West didn't know who Huawei, Oppo, Xiaomi, Vivo were, but when they saw them selling good quality smart phones cheaper than the likes of Simens, Nokia, Sony, etc. a lot of the customers quickly switched. When a buyer sees that a BMW EV with a 400 miles range costs 50K, while a decent MG with the same range is 30K brand status and loyalty won't stop a lot of peaple from buying the cheaper car.
 
Grim5 said:
Chinese cars are throwaways, so long as you are happy with that then so be it. Just don't expect the car to have any resale value and don't expect it to last more than 10 years before the rust make the floor fall out or the everything dies on you


As for people with their whataboutism regarding Tesla and iPhones - those products are built to western standards and enforced by the western owners because they are premium products - it may surprise you but the Chinese can make high quality products when they want to, the problem is they don't want unless you force them to and you give your technology so they know how to use western technology to create those products. The Chinese owned car brands are built to Chinese standards using Chinese tools and machines, they cut corners wherever possible - for example using recycled steel and not galvanising the steel, so by the time your car is 10 years old half of it is covered in rust and holes
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Recycled steel?

Um hate to tell you that’s called arc furnace steel, quite commonly used in the car industry. Heck even virgin BOS made steel uses up to 30% scrap in its process.

And galvanising process is the bee all of rust protection, a minor scratch and the coating is compromised.

But yes Chinese quality has a lot to be desired, companies over there don’t have to stick to manufacturing standards (ISO’s) like they do in the west
 
Grim5 said:
Tesla had to take billions in US government subsidies, go public and suck billions more from investors just to try and stay alive long enough to become the first new US car company to make a profit in 70 years
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Pretty sure it was in the form of a start up loan which they paid back unlike every other American car company other than Ford (I think) has had to be bailed out in that time to stop them going bust which were not repaid.

I don’t think you’ll find any disappointed Tesla investors either, particularly the early ones. Only disappointed short sellers who wanted the company to die and subsequently lost billions for their investors. For context, if you invested $10,000 in 2012 (at a massive risk mind), it would have been worth $2.1 million in 2022.
 
Grim5 said:
It will take 10 to 20 years of building solid, reliable cars to change peoples minds. For a long time in the west people believed South Korean cars were complete rubbish, it look a long time for them to change the perception, just like it will take a long time to change perception of new brand Chinese cars, especially when it's these brands that just started up and they have no history - you're not buying a BMW here you're buying a no-name brand that can disappear in the gutter tommorow

That's why starting a new car brand is not cheap, it costs billions and will take over 10 years to make a profit. Tesla had to take billions in US government subsidies, go public and suck billions more from investors just to try and stay alive long enough to become the first new US car company to make a profit in 70 years
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How vw's debt doing $166b, Toyota $217b and Ford at $139b.
 
Abraxaz1 said:
And galvanising process is the bee all of rust protection, a minor scratch and the coating is compromised.
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and now for something completely different V - on the Chinese cars (mg's are saic)

jpaul said:
Looks like SAIC ieMG are acknowledged to have a different galvanising process , in similar vein to modern paints that have to be more environmentally friendly

Setting new benchmark: Henkel helps SAIC-GM make new technological breakthrough | Automotive World

Henkel Asia-Pacific announced that its automotive team had used Bonderite M-NT 1820 surface pretreatment technology to help SAIC General Motors
www.automotiveworld.com www.automotiveworld.com
but also fits all metal substrates, thus greatly shortening the process time and saving cost in equipment investment and process control. With Bonderite M-NT 1820, heavy metals, solid waste and waste water are all significantly reduced, thus saving resources and waste treatment cost. Since the processes of surface conditioning and passivation can be skipped, investment in process and equipment footprint are saved and the operational cost including water, electricity, gas and chemicals are reduced.
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...The car at half the price burns half as long,
 
SkyTerran said:
Interesting what the price in UK is going to be.
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It’s on the Volvo website:
£33k for small battery single motor.
£38k for large battery single motor.
£43k for large battery dual motor.

There are other trim differences as you go up the range - the top ones has a panoramic roof.

fastwunz said:
This thing makes the VW ID3 (all of them are awful) look like a motorised turnip.
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Not just the ID.3 but also the Hyundai Kona now looks very expensive.
 
Abraxaz1 said:
Recycled steel?

Um hate to tell you that’s called arc furnace steel, quite commonly used in the car industry. Heck even virgin BOS made steel uses up to 30% scrap in its process.

And galvanising process is the bee all of rust protection, a minor scratch and the coating is compromised.

But yes Chinese quality has a lot to be desired, companies over there don’t have to stick to manufacturing standards (ISO’s) like they do in the west
Click to expand...

Korean cars are like that too and they DO follow industry standards. Kia didn't even bother to galvanize the front subframe on some their cars, so they rust badly and eventually crack. I expect the same from Chinese cars, I bet after the 10 year mark they look horrendous like other Chinese engineered things. There is a reason they are cheap.
 
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Nasher said:
Korean cars are like that too and they DO follow industry standards. Kia didn't even bother to galvanize the front subframe on some their cars, so they rust badly and eventually crack. I expect the same from Chinese cars, I bet after the 10 year mark they look horrendous like other Chinese engineered things. There is a reason they are cheap.
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My Hyundai is almost as clean as the day it rolled out the factory underneath, it's done plenty of salty winter driving and I'm basically useless at cleaning it.
 
jpaul said:
and now for something completely different V - on the Chinese cars (mg's are saic)



...The car at half the price burns half as long,
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No one galvinises cars now. its all e-coated.

I sit with glee seeing know it all Nasher and jpaul have quoted the use of zinc on road cars :cry: yet whilst trying to push a sustainable eco narrative by its use! Boys give up guessing yeah?
 
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it's funny how stereotypes stick. my 1st performance car was a 1998 fiat coupe .

despite it being fully galvanised and not a spot of rust on it even at over 100,000 miles and pushing 10 years old (a bit of corrosion on the aluminium fuel cap) the amount of people who laughed at me buying an Italian rust bucket

still..,... no skin off my nose, those kinds of comments just help keep the 2nd hand prices nice and low so I got a bargain

(I crashed it sadly :( )

(now if you want to talk shonky Italian electrics....... am not gonna argue that ;) )
 
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SkyTerran said:

Interesting what the price in UK is going to be.
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b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s on the Volvo website:
£33k for small battery single motor.
£38k for large battery single motor.
£43k for large battery dual motor.

There are other trim differences as you go up the range - the top ones has a panoramic roof.
Click to expand...

Yep - the EX30 UK prices have been on their site since about June 2023
There is also a lower spec model coming out later for £31k
 
Ermm no. Thats an aluminium body. There is no reason to galvanise that as it’s not even steel and the process doesn’t work.

Please don’t share janky links like that’.

I think you’ve just shown exactly why your source data is always so questionable. You have found something that fits your guess rather than knowledge cars are e-coated with nothing more than a paint.
 
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If there are steel parts near the aluminium ones they will need to do those.

tom_e said:
My Hyundai is almost as clean as the day it rolled out the factory underneath, it's done plenty of salty winter driving and I'm basically useless at cleaning it.
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Unless you take the wings off and look you might not see the bad spots. I had one actually snap near the control arm mounts. Apparently it's a thing on older ones. If it's getting to the 12 year mark, watch out.
 
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