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What was all the issues with Hamilton about ?
Chinese Grand Prix 2010, Shanghai - Race 4/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Can anyone explain why so many drivers got away with driving over the pit entry white lines today? Alonso and a couple of others did it obviously and yet nothing was done.....
As stated above Im sure if Rosberg for instance had been in 1st with one /two laps to go LH would have fought harder to win - Im sure he was pretty near limits of the car with the rain getting heavier and his Inters pretty much bald
As stated above Im sure if Rosberg for instance had been in 1st with one /two laps to go LH would have fought harder to win - Im sure he was pretty near limits of the car with the rain getting heavier and his Inters pretty much bald
Frank, given Hamilton's driving style of "eyeballs out", every lap, I find it difficult to believe that he was "going easy" because Button was leading. You can bet your bottom dollar that Hamilton was driving as fast as he could and would not have hesitated if the opportunity had presented itself to overtake Button.
I think its also fair to say that Hamilton wants to establish himself as No.1 and if he has the opportunity to overtake/beat Button, he will jump at the chance.
In those final laps, I believe both Button and Hamilton were driving as fast as their cars would allow.
I think its also fair to say that Hamilton wants to establish himself as No.1 and if he has the opportunity to overtake/beat Button, he will jump at the chance.
In those final laps, I believe both Button and Hamilton were driving as fast as their cars would allow.
Soldato
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I have read some interesting posts. Here is my view.
Hamilton is very fast, possibly a touch faster than Button, but then he rags his tyres to bits.
Button is very fast and has a smooth driving style which doesn't rag the tyres to bits as quickly as Hamilton.
Obviously they are the two last champions and are top drivers.
Schumi is struggling with the removal of traction control imo. He is in his 40s and no matter what he does, the younger driver's with have a quicker response time than him now. He has some upgradings coming for the next GP, but (again imo) after that he has run out of excuses. Yes a winning car has far more impact that a driver, but I think that the huge gap between the Mercedes drivers shows that one is much better than the other.
As for Red Bull, well I think Vettel will win it this year, he has had Pole every time so far and for various unlucky reasons has not won as many as he should have (which tbh could have been them all). Webber is a very good driver, but to me he is always going to outshadowed by Vettel, as Vettel is simply better, which is a shame as Webber is still a top driver.
The team who has a fuel tank too small is laughable (Virgin or Hispania, I cannot remember).
I think the pit lane entry was cut many a time in Shanghai and I am sure that Massa will be pretty hacked off at Alonso for overtaking him on it!
One thing I do admire about Hamilton, is that whatever the situation he gives it his all. I am also a firm believer that if you are not racing to come 1st, then you should not be racing at all. I also admire Button's actions for not being a sheep and pitting for wet tyres just because every one else, including his own team says so - To which Button going against the team instructions has won him two GP's this year so far.
Hamilton is very fast, possibly a touch faster than Button, but then he rags his tyres to bits.
Button is very fast and has a smooth driving style which doesn't rag the tyres to bits as quickly as Hamilton.
Obviously they are the two last champions and are top drivers.
Schumi is struggling with the removal of traction control imo. He is in his 40s and no matter what he does, the younger driver's with have a quicker response time than him now. He has some upgradings coming for the next GP, but (again imo) after that he has run out of excuses. Yes a winning car has far more impact that a driver, but I think that the huge gap between the Mercedes drivers shows that one is much better than the other.
As for Red Bull, well I think Vettel will win it this year, he has had Pole every time so far and for various unlucky reasons has not won as many as he should have (which tbh could have been them all). Webber is a very good driver, but to me he is always going to outshadowed by Vettel, as Vettel is simply better, which is a shame as Webber is still a top driver.
The team who has a fuel tank too small is laughable (Virgin or Hispania, I cannot remember).
I think the pit lane entry was cut many a time in Shanghai and I am sure that Massa will be pretty hacked off at Alonso for overtaking him on it!
One thing I do admire about Hamilton, is that whatever the situation he gives it his all. I am also a firm believer that if you are not racing to come 1st, then you should not be racing at all. I also admire Button's actions for not being a sheep and pitting for wet tyres just because every one else, including his own team says so - To which Button going against the team instructions has won him two GP's this year so far.
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Well, I'm just a simple country bumpkin, but there does seem to be a fairly obvious opening here and I'd be slacking if I didn't go for it
So here goes:If Alonso is massively superior to Massa, then why does Massa end up ahead of him in the first place?
Can it be luck? Um, this is the same Massa who got clobbered by an errant spring, this is not the hallmark of a particularly lucky guy!
Can it be the team? They've shown no signs of having any major confidence in him before, so why would they start now that they have a two-time champion in the other car?
Can it be skill? Well, even I would say that Alonso was the more complete driver - and I don't even particularly like him.
I think even the most hardened Massa critic (paging dannyjo22, paging dannyjo22) would allow for the fact that on his day he is damned near untouchable - Massa has four races with pole, FL and the win to his name, neither Alonso nor Hamilton can say the same. He hasn't had one of those days this season so far though (probably because we haven't been to Turrkey yet!). So what is it? Has Alonso actually lost something after one very unhappy season at McLaren and a return to Renault that didn't really achieve a great deal by his previous high standards?
I mean, y'all are declaring Schumacher done for after a while away from top flight racing. Is it so much of a stretch from that to thinking Alonso might not be the driver he once was?
What a brilliant race, finally 1,2 for the brits 
....
MSC looking lost and looking like an average midfield driver. Will be interesting to see what happens at spain as they are getting a fair few updates specifically designed for MSC.
Brilliant race and so happy with stewards decisions.
.... MSC looking lost and looking like an average midfield driver. Will be interesting to see what happens at spain as they are getting a fair few updates specifically designed for MSC.
Brilliant race and so happy with stewards decisions.
It would appear that Massa is better off the start-line, than Alonso. Today's start by Alonso was spectacularly bad. But as you saw, after taking an extra pitstop (penalty), he was all over the back of Massa. He then was forced into a "strong" overtake on Massa, after which he just drove away from Massa.
We've seen similar to what happened to day, happen in the last 3 races - Massa gets off the line better, then gradually, lap by lap, Alonso inches upto Massa, but can't get passed. He is obviously faster, but as we all know, to get past the slower car in front, you have to be significantly faster - not easy when the car in front is also a Ferrari.
It is possible.
But judging by Alonso's race pace, he seems easily able to outpace Massa. I've not actually seen Massa outpaced so significantly since he first moved to Ferrari and MS was his team-mate.
If you compare this to MS, who is currently taking one heck of a beating at the hands of Rosberg - Alonso is still performing just as he did during 2005-2007. I don't feel that MS's situation can be likened to that of Alonso.
Chinese GP - Top three drivers
McLaren's Jenson Button gives his reaction to winning the Chinese Grand Prix ahead of team-mate Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes GP's Nico Rosberg.
Highlights - Chinese Grand Prix
Jenson Button leads a McLaren one-two ahead of Lewis Hamilton in a rain-affected Chinese Grand Prix in Shanghai.
Vettel incident just part of racing - Lewis Hamilton
McLaren's Lewis Hamilton is delighted to finish second at the Chinese Grand Prix and defends his conduct in the race during an incident with Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel.
Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel given FIA reprimand
McLaren's Lewis Hamilton and Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel have been reprimanded following a pit-lane incident at the Chinese Grand Prix.
Cheeky Alonso nips past Massa in pits
Fernando Alonso steals a march on Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa as they both enter into the pit-lane at the same time during the Chinese Grand Prix.
Michael Schumacher frustrated after difficult race
Michael Schumacher admits the Chinese Grand Prix was great for the spectators but is frustrated by how his played out after finishing 10th.
Was a very good race until the 2nd safety car that. How Schumacher held Hamilton up for 4 laps is anyone's guess, Vettel proved how it's done by charging past after about 3 corners.
Why doesn't Hamilton get anything for being released into Vettel then, as I remember it happened with Massa and it was widely frowned upon on here?
Why doesn't Hamilton get anything for being released into Vettel then, as I remember it happened with Massa and it was widely frowned upon on here?
Other than the race where Webber has had pole.
JRS said:
Though Hamilton and Alonso both have WDCs against their names. Which I think is a more telling fact than the occasional fastest driver of the day. And how many races has Massa won when he hasn't been on the front row of the grid?
Why doesn't Hamilton get anything for being released into Vettel then, as I remember it happened with Massa and it was widely frowned upon on here?
Because they were released near enough at the same time. That is something you can not rule against. It wasn't like Vettle was already on the pit lane when they released Hamilton.
Stupid 3 week break now
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Was a very good race until the 2nd safety car that. How Schumacher held Hamilton up for 4 laps is anyone's guess, Vettel proved how it's done by charging past after about 3 corners.
Why doesn't Hamilton get anything for being released into Vettel then, as I remember it happened with Massa and it was widely frowned upon on here?
Both cars were released as close to simultaneously as possible. Hamilton then had a bunch of wheelspin which allowed Vettel to close rapidly.
Because they were released near enough at the same time. That is something you can not rule against. It wasn't like Vettle was already on the pit lane when they released Hamilton.
Stupid 3 week break now
I was on the wind up
I'd only seen it once to be fair, just seen it again and I do agree it's not punishable. What's the general view about the SC mishap with Button then?
3 weeks? Ideal, I work every other Sunday so that'll put me in line to get F1 weekends off.. hang on, no it won't, Monaco's 1 week after the next. Dammit.
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Soldato
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I'm probably guilty of the same thinking really. Considering Button's earlier moments in his career with signing for Williams then backing out to stay at BAR he at least was loyal enough to Honda to stick around when the team could have folded. His loyalty was rewarded with one stink of a car and he became world champ. Perhaps the confidence from being a world champ gave him the conviction that he could go into any team and perform consistently against his team mate, whoever that was. In McLaren Button is at a team used to winning races and titles, used to developing cars and he'll benefit from him and Lewis developing the car whereas at Brawn/Mercedes Rubens, who is undoubtedly expert at developing cars but isn't a regular race winner/world champ like Lewis, or Nico just wouldn't have been able to develop the car with Button in anyway like how Button/Lewis can for McLaren.
Its Button's confidence to go up against Lewis and to win 50% of the 2010 GPs thus far that impresses me more than him hanging around at BAR/Honda/Brawn long enough to finally have a title winning prospect car.
Yeah. I think Ferrari have made a big mistake in becoming too emotional with Massa and his crash last year. Don't get me wrong I respect the guy and the pain he must have gone through with his sight, career and life following that accident must have made him more of a man but Ferrari need/want to win titles and they hired Alonso because......? Massa came close but Ferrari surely think they can hire drivers to win titles sooner than the last GP of the year hence Alonso's signing for Ferrari. Unless Massa starts winning GPs from Spain onwards I think Ferrari need to be cold and unemotional and tell Massa that Alonso is the lead driver and to support him.
Same. I was thinking that Rosberg was in for a spanking but a) Rosberg is doing fantastically well and b) the car looks pretty decent. 4 races in now so any fitness issues can't be used as an excuse and how many of the 4 races so far have been on tracks Schumacher hasn't raced on before? None I think. I think Schumacher has another 2-3 races to massively outperform Rosberg or people will start to wonder what was the point in one of the best drivers in F1 coming back at all.
The humiliation rather than a lack of confidence would be why he'd quit before the season I reckon. Heidfeld could probably step in and do as good a job, if not better, and still be German enough for Haug to be a happy bunny.
Possibly the traction control is something Schumacher has to adapt to but then this is Schumacher, one of the all time bests. There are legendary stories told by mechanics and engineers at Benetton and Ferrari of how Schumacher drove round car problems that would have caused other drivers to retire or be extremely slow and lose many positions in the race. Schumacher's also driven in F1 when there was no traction control, apart from 1994 of course (
), so he really is very flipping low on excuses. And as someone said earlier Ross Brawn's "good question" reply to Brundle's pit walk question about Schumacher's lack of speed is very telling. Brawn and Schumacher are probably the best driver/engineer & tactician pairing in F1 history and if Ross has no idea what's wrong you can bet they won't be solving it very soon.Exactly. Even taking into account Rosberg's age and experience with current F1 cars Schumacher should either be matching Rosberg or slightly beating him. For the current status quo to be going on suggests something very weird is going on. Not that I'm dissing Rosberg, I've always liked him and it'd be nice for him to win a GP this year. When the Mercedes/Schumacher/Rosberg lineup was announced my thought wasn't so much that if Rosberg beats Schumacher how good does he look as a result but more if Rosberg beats a poor Schumacher then how hard will people be on Rosberg saying, "well anyone could have beaten Schumacher this year so Rosberg can't be all that good".
Why doesn't Hamilton get anything for being released into Vettel then, as I remember it happened with Massa and it was widely frowned upon on here?
Because we all agreed the lollipops went up at too close a time, such that A) the lollipop man couldn't put his back down and B) he couldn't account for the poor traction Hamilton would get out of his box.
The release was equal and if Hamilton had gotten away they wouldn't have been side by side. There is only so much the rules can account for. Hamilton isn't going to concede a position if he thinks he doesnt have to and he would know you could fit two cars down there nicely. Vettel had other plans and drifted to the right.
If Vettel had been more forceful we could have a whole lot of injured Williams mechanics right now, but he wasn't, he gained a place due to Hamilton's mistake and that's that.
I'd have to look up front row stats, but both Hamilton and Massa have the same number of wins from pole position (7). Same number of total wins as well (11).
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Thought as much, but I'll still post it even though everyone will claim it torpedoes my argument. Massa has been on the front row every time he won, Hamilton 'only' 8 times in 11 wins.
Though I could point out that Hamilton has 17 pole positions to the 15 of Massa, so technically he's actually worse at converting pole to a win. But I'm not feeling particularly trenchant today so I'll let that one slide. Besides, it was probably McLaren that cost him on those two occasions
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Massa was flattered by having a uninterested Kimi as a team mate. If Alonso was with ferrari instead of Kimi we would be talking about Alonso having 4 world titles now.
Yes massa has ended up ahead of Alonso when the lights go out because in one race he outqualified him, Alonso I think went on to win that race. Then he got clobbered going into the first corner. A racing incident and unlucky for Alonso. He had a poor start in race 3 but had gear selection issues. Today he jumped the start. His own fault. Nothing to do with massa being lucky or unlucky or doing anything special to get ahead of alonso.
The fact is there easy to see clear as day, despite these issues Alonso is pounding him for pace. He can have gear selection issues, get punted and end up at the back or get a drive through and have 5 stops, yet he's still blasting massa out the water for pace.
With a bit more ferrari reliability Alonso would be leading the championship and if ferrari had've had the sense by now to see who the number 1 is they would have engineered alonso ahead instead of losing time and stressing the components in dirty air following massa. He would then be quite a few points clear at the top despite not having the fastest car.
For me Alonso is driving as well as ever.