Chinese Grand Prix 2010, Shanghai - Race 4/19

Forget your favourite drivers and think straight for a sec...

You don't agree with those penalties because you favour the drivers who would be punished ;)

The matter of the fact is, if the letter of the rulebook was properly being upheld, then Button definitely should have received a penalty. Article 40.11 was read out by MB on air - as you can see below, it essentially places Jenson firmly in the wrong for his actions.

In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.
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Likewise Lewis initially was further back than Vettel when they were both exiting the pit lane, and by not yielding he was essentially trying to overtake, which is illegal as I understand it? Sebastien in my opinion was the worst sinner of them all - trying to shove a fellow racer into the actual pit boxes at 60mph is just down right evil. He's gone down quite a bit in my estimation for doing that.

Re. Alonso doing Massa into the pits... not sure on the legalities of crossing the pit entry line. That needs to be properly defined if it has not been, or properly enforced if it has.

You may make some drivers over-cautious, but that's the whole point of rules. But the better, more aggressive drivers will always take risks to win - Hammy, MSC, FA etc etc. By letting drivers get away with crap like that, it makes the rule book seem like a joke. When they finally do crack down on crappy habbits, you guys will then moan "oh but Driver X did that last year and nothing happened to him".

Why not have, a) sensible & reasonable rules, and b) actually sodding enforce them!!

My £0.02!

Su
 
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Sumanji said:
Sebastien in my opinion was the worst sinner of them all - trying to shove a fellow racer into the actual pit boxes at 60mph is just down right evil. He's gone down quite a bit in my estimation for doing that.
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Yep, he is way down on my list, close to Alonso and Schumi now.

Why did people get penalties for unsafe releases in the past but Vettel didn't get penalised for that is strange
 
I actually agree with Brundle on the Button incident (though I am a supporter of Button). I wouldn't say he clearly broke the rules, since slowing the pack is normal and this was just a more extreme case. The point of giving a reprimand would simply be to give a clear message to everyone about where the limit for this is. It wouldn't really harm Button and open the door to future penalties without being hypocritical.

The pit lane incident is more difficult in some ways. My preference would be to penalise Vettel, since what he did is both recklessly dangerous and arguably malicious. Hamilton I would only reprimand however, on their own his actions weren't the cause of the problem but he may have been able to avoid the incident by yeilding earlier. Though he denies he could have you can clearly see in pictures that there is space for him to do so.

I think they are too scared to penalise one but not the other, which is why Vettel gets away scot-free.

And to say Lewis was attempting to overtake is idiotic, they were under the speed limiter so how was he going to get past?

Edit: And I do think the 'safe release' rules are a problem. In this situation McLaren had a clear and unfair disadvantage. IMO they should base pit positions on championship standings and try and separate direct competitiors more.
 
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He slowed down at the end of the straight - the other cars should be prepared to slow as it was a couple corners from the end of the lap. The fact they went three or four abreast is their problem.
 
I don't understand why Brundle thought Hamilton should be punished. We've seen cars go down the pit lane side by side for years.

The crime was solely on the side of Vettel. He shouldn't be pushing his rival into garages/tyre guns.

I'm SURE if Hamilton realised he was about to hit a tyre gun or anything he would have yielded. The only reason he did not is because he knew there was still a few inches to spare and frankly he doesn't want to be bullied by Vettel as it shows weakness.

The pit lane in China is very wide and can easily fit two F1 cars side by side. The FIA should have reminded Vettel of this and made a formal announcement to remind other drivers of that.


The pit lane release rules need to be dropped and replaced with a standard automated FIA traffic lights system for every pit box. The team could then press a button which indicates they have finished their stop. Then the FIA-controlled pit release system waits for a free space in the pit lane. If it detects a potential collision then it doesn't turn the light green until it is safe to release. This actually wouldn't be that hard to implement and it would increase perceived safety of the pit lane. But of course it would take away from the racing.
 
utajoker said:
he did pretty much stop and almost cause a pile up though, people were jumping off the track to dodge cars infront.

maybe not a penalty but i would have thought a telling off like hamilton and vettel.
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if you look at the first few cars - there was no issue at all, maybe it was the other drivers not anticipating early enough (after all thats where the safety line is, and if they were in the lead I would bet 10000 - 1 that every driver would do exactly the same.....bunch the pack up, as they have always done and will always do - its BECAUSE its just before a hairpin that it was caused and other drivers didnt anticipate it

Not JB 's fault at all imo

Sumanji said:
The matter of the fact is, if the letter of the rulebook was properly being upheld, then Button definitely should have received a penalty. Article 40.11 was read out by MB on air - as you can see below, it essentially places Jenson firmly in the wrong for his actions.


Su
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Actually watch how JB drove UPTO that point and he cant be cited from what you highlighted. He drove smoothly and braked smoothly - if drivers dont allow for it because they are only looking one car ahead, that isnt JB's fault
 
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utajoker said:
he did pretty much stop and almost cause a pile up though, people were jumping off the track to dodge cars infront.
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He didnt. What he did was slow down gradually, but he didnt do this suddenly (ie. he didnt jam on the brakes hard). It is not the fault of Button if the drivers behind are not skillfull enough to drive their cars in a safe manner without crashing into the car in front.

Button did nothing wrong and the fact that there havent been any complaints about Button, shows that the other drivers also didnt feel he did anything wrong.
 
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Had their been an accident, it would have been no different to when Hamilton drove into the back of another car in the pitlane because of the red light!

Button broke no rules as far as I can tell. The other drivers just assumed he would continue at normal speed, and did'nt look ahead and anticipate the tactics.
 
Dutch Guy said:
Yep, he is way down on my list, close to Alonso and Schumi now.

Why did people get penalties for unsafe releases in the past but Vettel didn't get penalised for that is strange
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You've just mentioned 3 of the best drivers that F1 has offered over the last few years. ;)
 
FrankJH said:
Actually watch how JB drove UPTO that point and he cant be cited from what you highlighted. He drove smoothly and braked smoothly - if drivers dont allow for it because they are only looking one car ahead, that isnt JB's fault
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Actually re-read the extract from the rule book I posted:

...drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor ANY OTHER MANOEUVRE which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.
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I'm not criticising his braking/acceleration, but his speed. ANY MANOEUVRE - which should cover slowing down to an unreasonably slow pace. There is no logical reason for doing this other than to cause havoc and discord for the following drivers.

Again, let it be known that from a personal standpoint, I don't want any of the drivers to be penalised. But if we have a set of rules, then the idea must be to uniformly follow and enforce them!

sunama said:
You've just mentioned 3 of the best drivers that F1 has offered over the last few years. ;)
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Which fits perfectly with the theory that all great sportsmen are ****s :D

Su
 
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Sumanji said:
Which fits perfectly with theory that all great sportsmen are ****s :D
Su
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Its just "Gamesmanship". Its common practice for sports men and women to utilise the rules to their full effect to gain any kind of advantage. People who don't are either so phenominal they can afford to take a moral stance, or simply not cut out for it..
 
NathanE said:
It was. I loved it when Kimi tapped Lewis on the shoulder and pointed at the traffic light :D
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When Kimi did that to him, Hamilton must've felt worse than if Kimi had lashed out with physical/verbal abuse. I mean, what the hell do you say to someone who you've just rammed at traffic lights, showing red?
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
Its just "Gamesmanship". Its common practice for sports men and women to utilise the rules to their full effect to gain any kind of advantage. People who don't are either so phenominal they can afford to take a moral stance, or simply not cut out for it..
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I heard Schumacher calls it "Germanship" - translates roughly to "to cheat and not get caught".

/legs it
 
utajoker said:
he did pretty much stop and almost cause a pile up though, people were jumping off the track to dodge cars infront.

maybe not a penalty but i would have thought a telling off like hamilton and vettel.
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Not at all, he slowed down gradually, maybe starting tens of metres before the normal braking point and everyone just bunched up right behind him causing it. There is no way Button should be held responsible for this. None of the first 4-5 cars were close together. It was only around Hamilton and the Rebulls that everything kicked off.

Duke said:
He slowed down at the end of the straight - the other cars should be prepared to slow as it was a couple corners from the end of the lap. The fact they went three or four abreast is their problem.
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^^ This.


Looks like everyone is just going to remain disagreeing on this point thought!
 
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