Chinese Grand Prix 2011, Shanghai International Circuit - Race 3/19

[arknor]

Teams were very quick in 2009 to copy the Brawn rear diffuser.
They were quick to copy McLaren's F-Duct in 2010.
But for some reason, the flexi-wings have got teams stumped.

because they were ruled as properly legit and the rules clearly state body work max not flex more than 5mm.
everyone assumed because its clearly against the rules it would be a waste of time spending money on it.

FIA show they are a bunch of muppets who dont care about enforcing what the rule book actually says.

DD was a loophole, f-duct was clearly legal and very clever, 5mm flex is blatantly not allowed in the rules.

the test is flawed they could stick a sensor on the RB during a test session if they really wanted to keep to the rule book but instead they use an outdated test that makes no sense in a modern world when we have technology they can easily see if it bends 5mm under racing conditions

 

[dannyjo22]

i reckon mercedes arent investing anything into the team and the drivers are trying to force mercedes hand

There was a good piece on pitpass hinting at how Mercedes are ****ing up. Having too many suits back in Germany to please financially rather than letting Brawn get on with it. Mercedes will turn into BMW, thinking they could do it all themselves and not listen to the experienced guys that have been in F1 for many years.

Merc should just go back to being an engine supplier to Mclaren, they ****ed up going it alone. Norbert Haug making the same mistakes Thiessen did in thinking he could turn an engine supplier into a top f1 team on a tight budget.

It used to be unthinkable that the works team would get beat by another team who was an engine customer, because the works team always had the bigger budget. Times have definately changed.

Nice fluff piece but doesnt really mean much (JB signed a 4 year contract last winter I seem to recall - which Im sure McLaren could pay off if they wanted to without batting an eyelid)

JB is contracted for this year and next. They might get them both on 5 year extensions but they willl be drastically different extensions.

JB's will have Mclaren get out's on performance while Lewis's would want guarantees the other way on the car.

The times today were taslking about JB on £8m per year and Lewis gets £35m.

That tells you the heiracy at Mclaren and what sort of contract stipulations Lewis would want to stay.

 

[sunama]

because they were ruled as properly legit and the rules clearly state body work max not flex more than 5mm.
everyone assumed because its clearly against the rules it would be a waste of time spending money on it.

In which case, it was a MASSIVE gamble that did not pay off.

To simply "hope" that the FIA (all of sudden), decide to ban a device in 2011, which they repeatedly passed as legal in 2010...a device which they did not ban during the Winter (which is what they did with the F-Duct), is absolutely crazy.

Oh and BTW, the RBR is 100% legal. Why - because the FIA (who make and enforce the rules), have said so.

 

[sunama]

Cant remember exactly what gave me this impression last weekend re flexible front wing, but I think it was hinted at the depths to which you have to develope the car to make the flexi front wing work may well scrap a lot of work other teams have done in the imtervening period (on different aspects of the car)

This is correct. Which gives even more reason for teams to have developed their 2011 cars, with this in mind.

To retro fit their car during the season would be tricky, but if you have an entire Winter to incorporate the flexi-wings...I can't see why a designer would not have chosen to copy RBR.

 

[dannyjo22]

The only feasible reason for not copying is they don't know how yet.

 

[elmuzzy66.]

The only feasible reason for not copying is they don't know how yet.

I think that is it becuase after the RBR past the new test criteria the others should have got a flexi wing out too. As they didn't i too believe that the other team just didn't know how do do it.

 

[FrankJH]

This is correct. Which gives even more reason for teams to have developed their 2011 cars, with this in mind.

To retro fit their car during the season would be tricky, but if you have an entire Winter to incorporate the flexi-wings...I can't see why a designer would not have chosen to copy RBR.

actually quite the opposite in one sense (although I can appreciate your view as well)

If the rake / flexi front wing heavily dictates avenues for developement, other teams are only ever going to be as good as RB (who have the best aero guy on the grid) and probably worse

If you go down other avenues - yes you may be behind for x amount of time (and yes you may also be behind for the whole season) but there is also a chance you could find something that RB cant possibly use , which will help you beat them

Dont know about you (and it may be all hyperthetical of course) but I would certainly choose the latter

 

[sunama]

Given that RBR are now consistently ahead of the competition, I would be happy copying their basic approach and then attempting to do work on other "stuff", to maybe gain an advantage.

Also, if you are Ferrari/McLaren, you are in a position, where you can allow your drivers to to make up the difference.

For example, if McLaren/Ferrari, could give their drivers a car which is only 0.2s/lap slower than the RBR, I'm pretty sure that Vettel won't be champion.

The problem right now is not that the RBR is fastest. The problem is that it is fastest by a comfortable margin, allowing Vettel to completely break clear of the chasing pack and start time trialling.

Although it would be nice, IMO McLaren or Ferrari do not need a car which is faster than RBR. They just need a car which is within 0.2s/lap of the RBR; their drivers will make up for the remaining deficit.

The alternative is to develop a car in a completely different way and as we saw in the first GP of the season, get absolutely hammered by the RBR.

IMO, for McLaren and Ferrari, copying the RBR is a much safer option than creating a completely different car.

 

[JTrickle]

Anyone managing to get 5live audio feed working?
Edit: now working.
Edit2: And not again, sigh. Should have decided on the bed strategy.

 

[Shimmy]

@jakehumphreyf1 London chasing sound issues on BBC website. You can see #bbcf1 on red button whilst we sort it. Accept our apologies

 

[JTrickle]

My video feed has just changed over to a Glen Hoddle interview.
Ah, looks like sorted now.

Edit: spoke too soon.

 

[Shimmy]

Works now.

 

[JTrickle]

That Mercedes is looking terrible. Both drivers sawing at the wheel.

Red Bull looking so strong off the blocks

And not again for Renault. Hedifeld out

 

[deuse]

I can't believe Mclaren are about 2 secs behind rb

 

[Flibster]

Ferrari appear to be threatening to pull out of F1... again...
Seriously Luca di Mentalzemolo - you are the slimy git who cried wolf.

“The contracts expire at the end of 2012. We need to discuss now how to proceed. Ferrari will continue to be there, so long as the sport gives us back something for the development of technology of our production cars. Otherwise not"

Bye bye. Don't let the door hit on you on the arse on the way out.

 

[deuse]

Ferrari appear to be threatening to pull out of F1... again...
Seriously Luca di Mentalzemolo - you are the slimy git who cried wolf.

“The contracts expire at the end of 2012. We need to discuss now how to proceed. Ferrari will continue to be there, so long as the sport gives us back something for the development of technology of our production cars. Otherwise not"

Bye bye. Don't let the door hit on you on the arse on the way out.

He could be on about the 1.6ltr engines the fia want to bring in as they are no good for ferrari road cars.

 

[FrankJH]

Given that RBR are now consistently ahead of the competition, I would be happy copying their basic approach and then attempting to do work on other "stuff", to maybe gain an advantage..

They arent that far ahead though - after 2 races

I understand where you are coming from but I respectfully completely disagree

 

[Irish_Tom]

So Vettle ahead after P2, followed closely by the two McLarens then the two Mercedes.

Alonso's already had a hissy fit and Webber is way down in 10th.

Hamilton's just under 2 tenths behind Vettle but I know you can't really tell a huge amount until Q3 tomorrow. I

f it stays like this it's looking like another RBR/Vettle win.

 

[utajoker]

If vettel gets pole who evers 2nd has prob the first lap to make a move then it's his race.

 

[Alibaba99]

Given that RBR are now consistently ahead of the competition, I would be happy copying their basic approach and then attempting to do work on other "stuff", to maybe gain an advantage.

Also, if you are Ferrari/McLaren, you are in a position, where you can allow your drivers to to make up the difference.

For example, if McLaren/Ferrari, could give their drivers a car which is only 0.2s/lap slower than the RBR, I'm pretty sure that Vettel won't be champion.

The problem right now is not that the RBR is fastest. The problem is that it is fastest by a comfortable margin, allowing Vettel to completely break clear of the chasing pack and start time trialling.

Although it would be nice, IMO McLaren or Ferrari do not need a car which is faster than RBR. They just need a car which is within 0.2s/lap of the RBR; their drivers will make up for the remaining deficit.

The alternative is to develop a car in a completely different way and as we saw in the first GP of the season, get absolutely hammered by the RBR.

IMO, for McLaren and Ferrari, copying the RBR is a much safer option than creating a completely different car.

Ferrari have already copied RBR and they don't even have the 2nd fastest car on the grid.

If you copy something you will only ever be as good as the other car, but with the disadvantage that you will be several years behind in the understanding stakes.

Going down a completely different route may give difficulties initially as the understanding of the design increases but may give far greater improvements as the design matures.