Chinese Grand Prix 2011, Shanghai International Circuit - Race 3/19

[FreeStream]

So we should only compare fastest laps when the fuel load and tyre compound/wear are identical?

Errr. Yes! Why on earth would you think otherwise?

Edit: Fuel load more than tyres. As long as tyres type (soft/hard) and are reasonably the same wear level then yes, those time are more relevant then ones separated by 22 laps!

 

[Kenai]

hmm, the only thing that matters is the tyres, a faster lap is a faster lap, I would question why the Ferrari set it's fastest lap so early in the race, they obviously got the strategy completely wrong.

am I the only one who's getting a bit sick of JH

Well, no, the tyres are not 'the only thing that matters', a huge weight advantage is a huge weight advantage regardless and 40KG is worth a hell of a lot of time to an F1 car.

Sure tyres play a part too and I suspect Alonso did a fair bit of damage to his early on in that stint squabbling with other cars (including, IIRC, overtaking MSC) but they are far from the only factor.

 

[loltim]

Errr. Yes! Why on earth would you think otherwise?

I'm talking from Mike Gascoynes perspective, not an F1 Analyst.

Trulli's best lap was better. End of.

 

[NathanE]

I'm talking from Mike Gascoynes perspective, not an F1 Analyst.

Trulli's best lap was better. End of.

To be honest Gascoyne speaks a lot of crap. He will find any minor statistic and use it to plug the success of his outfit. He does it week after week and it's so cringe worthy.

 

[Kenai]

Trulli's best lap was better. End of.

If you're happy to view things completely without context, then yep, absolutely.

 

[Setroc]

Fastest laps aren't comparable and mean nothing. I don't remember what tyre sequence alonso used but he was probably on hard tyres at the end of the race so his fastest would have been at the point where his second set of softs were still near-new. Basically what you need to set your fastest lap are these two things to be at their peak while in clean air:

tyre condition
low fuel

These average out during the race, but if your strategy means that you are on your best tyres late in the race and happen to have clean air then you've got yourself a fast lap. Especially on these highly variable tyres, fastest lap during a race simply means nothing and can easily be taken out of context, which is exactly what mike gascoyne did.

 

[NathanE]

He does it all the time. He thinks viewers are idiots but they're not. Like as if his piece of crap car is in any way comparable to something like a Ferrari.

Oh and the way he talked down Williams with the word "unfortunately" was awful.

 

[loltim]

He does it all the time. He thinks viewers are idiots but they're not. Like as if his piece of crap car is in any way comparable to something like a Ferrari.

Oh and the way he talked down Williams with the word "unfortunately" was awful.

I think you're taking his comment too seriously.

Was he suggesting that taking into account all race variables the car was faster? no. It's a non-serious dig at Ferrari/Alonso if anything

 

[dannyjo22]

Oh and the way he talked down Williams with the word "unfortunately" was awful.

Have you misunderstood how he meant that?

His meaning was Williams are such a great team it's unfortunate to be racing them when a team as great as Williams (in his opinion) should be near the front.

He was paying them a compliment. He was saddened that his outfit was racing them.

 

[NathanE]

Have you misunderstood how he meant that?

His meaning was Williams are such a great team it's unfortunate to be racing them when a team as great as Williams (in his opinion) should be near the front.

He was paying them a compliment. He was saddened that his outfit was racing them.

It's still an insult to them. He's basically writing them off. They could be better at the next race.

 

[NathanE]

I think you're taking his comment too seriously.

Was he suggesting that taking into account all race variables the car was faster? no. It's a non-serious dig at Ferrari/Alonso if anything

I know that. But he still felt the need to dig up some contrived and pointless statistic to make his outfit look better than they are. Someone needs to give him a slap next time he does it.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

He seemed happy with 16th. Like he was going to go home, hug his kids and sex his wife because he came 16th :/

 

[Alibaba99]

All I can say is, I reccon the other top teams such a redbull, Mclaran, Ferrari, Renault will copy LH's stratagy in qualifine. Its not so much driver skill, but tire choice.

The driver still has to set a quick qually time with only one run, and cannot afford to damage his tyres in any way otherwise he will compromise his first stint. Plus you need to get through Q1 and Q2 with the minimum of runs (ie 1) which is something even the Ferrari isn't fast enough to do at the moment.

Look at the way Hamilton went passed Vettel. It was almost like he stopped moving in comparison to lewis car. I don't see that as taking anymore skill than a DRS pass. As Button said when the tyres go or someone is on a fresher set there is very little you can do to defend, you are a sitting duck.

Lewis had saved his entire KERs allocation (instead of using it in the usual places), knowing that Vettels was fried, and used it to catch him unawares.

 

[Slam62]

The tires do seem to be quite cleverly made, a layer of material that gives grip wears down to a core that doesn't, the hard tire is not so much hard as less grippy. I guess the best strategy depends on how much faster the option is. I would be interested to know to what extent Pirelli can control this. Presumably they can make the options a pit stop faster than the prime and both significantly slower when worn. Then a driver would keep all the options, qualify on the hards and pit stop on the first lap.

Edit: you then end up with a back to front grid.

edit again, if Webber had had another set of options and/or pitted earlier from his hard stint he might have won the race.

 

[Glaucus]

edit again, if Webber had had another set of options and/or pitted earlier from his hard stint he might have won the race.

as I said before and I may be sounding like a stuck record. I can't see this lasting, re as will get enough data on the tyres to be able to comfortably able to predict them, we are only seeing this as the teams just don't know how the tyres react. Come halfway through the season, or maybe later. They will have a very good idea and the unpredictablitie will go out the window. It will just be like a decade ago, where most do the same and occasionally someone does something different and it pays off.

 

[Slam62]

as I said before and I may be sounding like a stuck record. I can't see this lasting, re as will get enough data on the tyres to be able to comfortably able to predict them, we are only seeing this as the teams just don't know how the tyres react. Come halfway through the season, or maybe later. They will have a very good idea and the unpredictablitie will go out the window. It will just be like a decade ago, where most do the same and occasionally someone does something different and it pays off.

possibly, but cars, drivers and tracks vary, also midfield teams will be motivated to use softs for grid position.

The track will change through the weekend as well.

 

[Fr0dders]

It's still an insult to them. He's basically writing them off. They could be better at the next race.

to be fair to him, Williams have already written themselves off.

They've already started talking about 2012.

 

[Glaucus]

possibly, but cars, drivers and tracks vary, also midfield teams will be motivated to use softs for grid position.

The track will change through the weekend as well.

Just like with Bridgestones, at some point they will have enough data to predict.

Of mclaren and rbi didn't have such an advantage they would all be using softs, so it makes no difference what the smaller teams do, it just means those two teams at most tracks can have an extra set unused.

 

[Django x2]

I love reading back through all the pages (say 15 onwards) with the likes of MrLOL saying McL race was over and fail etc, only to find that bar Button, Lewis won. You all seem to focus on the racing, but really the strategy always wins. The minute Jenson bungled and came in a lap late I though, if they pit them 3 times, they'll jump Vettel as his tyres won't last.

 

[Slam62]

Just like with Bridgestones, at some point they will have enough data to predict.

Of mclaren and rbi didn't have such an advantage they would all be using softs, so it makes no difference what the smaller teams do, it just means those two teams at most tracks can have an extra set unused.

I may be misunderstanding you, but I think you may be missing the point, that is that if the softer tire is fast enough and durable enough, the driver on that tire for the longest (while it is in the grippy phase) will win, no matter where he qualifies. The mid field teams will have nothing to lose by using softs in qualifying.

The skill of the driver or car design will be whether you can eak out the tyres to avoid a pit stop, or just plain go faster.

Overtakers should rise to the top though.