Confirmed: Windows Blue Will Be Free, to Be Called 8.1

Zuban · 31 May 2013 at 22:31

I'm not sure Microsoft have really changed it for your average punter lamenting the lack of start menu, the more i'm thinking about it the more I think its more for corporate customers who would see no merit, and a lot of pain in shifting to windows 8 because of training implications, and who's lobbying power is probably more significant, as pointed out earlier the return of the start button will make it easier to implement windows 8 in the work place, of course adding it back to return an element of familiarity to your average person is also going to be a major reason. But Microsoft know that start menu users were in a dying minority so its not surprising they at least currently show no interest in its return. I'll hopefully have some Microsoft guys back on site soon as they have kindly funded us to do a few weeks proof of concept work around server 2012 so I will pick their brains and see what they think about the changes then. They aren't usually short of opinions but not always ones i'm allowed to share lol.

rare · 1 Jun 2013 at 19:31

Maybe they could add the option of navigating, shutting down etc the pc with an xbox controller. For me that would be massively helpful. I am still ****ed they haven't incorporated this feature.

Windows 8 has literally stopped me from using my PC for most tasks, instead I use my MacBook. Windows 8 is horrible. Tasks which should be easy are not. I hate the damn thing!

V F · 1 Jun 2013 at 19:32

What tasks?

Undesirable · 1 Jun 2013 at 20:30

I wonder if Windows 8.1 will fix the unnecessary delay before applications start up after you log in.

edgedemon · 1 Jun 2013 at 20:45

koolpc said:
I'm leaving Windows and heading to Android. Mate has a Samsung tablet and It does all I need to do that I would normally do on a Win 8 device, except crash and blue screen and have configuration problems and viruses and malware and updates that cocck things up all the time!!!

Brings up an interesting point, I know several people who only connect to the web via a phone, and a few more via a phone or tablet. They don't own or want a laptop or PC, usage patterns are changing and vendors need to adapt..

Infidelus · 1 Jun 2013 at 21:49

rare said:
Windows 8 has literally stopped me from using my PC for most tasks, instead I use my MacBook. Windows 8 is horrible. Tasks which should be easy are not. I hate the damn thing!

What tasks are so much more difficult to complete on Windows 8 than on Windows 7?

Undesirable said:
I wonder if Windows 8.1 will fix the unnecessary delay before applications start up after you log in.

There's a delay? Slow HDD?

theheyes · 1 Jun 2013 at 22:06

edgedemon said:
Brings up an interesting point, I know several people who only connect to the web via a phone, and a few more via a phone or tablet. They don't own or want a laptop or PC, usage patterns are changing and vendors need to adapt..

It's already happening, but apparently Microsoft are nuts for not releasing A.N.Other desktop orientated operating system.

Zuban · 1 Jun 2013 at 23:10

Undesirable said:
I wonder if Windows 8.1 will fix the unnecessary delay before applications start up after you log in.

tbh your spec if quite good so it seems unlikely its your hardware is at fault. One thing I will say from my own experience is that because the os is there and ready to use much quicker than before there can appear to be a delay between say the desktop being ready, and the likes of spotify, steam etc opening up, not sure if this is a perception thing or not, it will obviously depend on a lot of things. Personally I prefer that the os is up and ready ahead of my other apps opening at startup, rather than those apps's starting up delaying the desktop from being fully loaded and usable.

Zuban · 1 Jun 2013 at 23:35

theheyes said:
It's already happening, but apparently Microsoft are nuts for not releasing A.N.Other desktop orientated operating system.

careful, you might start joining the dots for some people

but its true, Microsoft are faced with a difficult direction decision as the landscape changes, I think they haven't done it perfectly, but when it comes to what they have done well and haven't, general opinion is wide of the mark, overall I think they have done well in a changing market, if they had continued the way they had many people would be happy but I think we would see their relevance diminishing rapidly. Microsoft has changed as a company in recent years, and most people wont see it, as most people only see Microsoft as windows and office, but that is only one part of what they do. Anyone who has seen the leaps and bounds in recent years that ms offer in virtualization and the contrast between sccm 2007 and 2012 I hope will know what I mean, they actually are listening.

Undesirable · 1 Jun 2013 at 23:36

If you set all your startup applications to load at log on via Task Scheduler (instead of their normal startup routines in the registry) then you will see that they load immediately rather than have a false delay.

Zuban · 1 Jun 2013 at 23:44

Undesirable said:
If you set all your startup applications to load at log on via Task Scheduler (instead of their normal startup routines in the registry) then you will see that they load immediately rather than have a false delay.

yeah that's quite interesting, I think that's something that should be an option, this is typical of something usually hidden in a lsp/gpo somewhere, I can see why they did that though. People will generally complain their pc is slow and they don't understand why, and when looked into sometimes its because they have installed loads of stuff, not knowing that some apps add something into the startup, so possibly adding to the delay of the pc starting up and being usable, so by default they have made it so the os is loaded first, by adding a delay to those apps, makes sense, its something we do at a corporate level on previous windows to reduce the overall loading time. It is worth remembering there is no ideal, but only ever a compromise.

Koogle · 2 Jun 2013 at 00:39

I don't care for the 8.1 and MS usual useless effort, they clearly just don't get it and are all about appeasing those who like ugly noob interfaces and the general dumbing down of choice etc.... And Win 9 will be the real infestering cloud crap... for now it seems Win7 is good and all the shell extensions work. I just hope Linux desktop will be better next Windows release

Zuban · 2 Jun 2013 at 00:43

Koogle said:
I don't care for the 8.1 and MS usual useless effort, they clearly just don't get it and are all about appeasing those who like ugly noob interfaces and the general dumbing down of choice etc.... And Win 9 will be the real infestering cloud crap... for now it seems Win7 is good and all the shell extensions work. I just hope Linux desktop will be better next Windows release

why join in reasoned debate when you can troll.

Koogle · 2 Jun 2013 at 01:20

Zuban said:
why join in reasoned debate when you can troll.

I see you don't like my view point on Win8 that's too bad.

Zuban · 2 Jun 2013 at 01:27

Koogle said:
I see you don't like my view point on Win8 that's too bad.

Your own opinion on windows 8 has little to do with this and your timing everything.

V F · 2 Jun 2013 at 17:51

Keyboard warrior?

Zuban · 2 Jun 2013 at 18:46

who knows lol, just some rubbish trolling.

One thing I was thinking about and an area I think Microsoft could do better with maybe a quick tutorial, from my experiences of people who are just your average user, most don't seem to know about file associations, something most of us here will take for granted. And from watching first time users of windows 8 what throws them the most is when they open a file on the desktop, say a picture of a movie, it will open it up in a metro app, rather than the desktop.

First time it happened to me I just sorted my file associations so it didn't happen, but to your average punter who hasn't had to really bother with that before in previous windows as all you had was the desktop, its confusing how they then get back to their desktop, not a big deal but it does throw them until they learn how to switch between them, but they don't expect it to happen in the first place. I'm not sure what the answer is either, and obviously ms would want to encourage people to use metro, perhaps a simple thing like the first time you open a file instead of it automatically opening they are presented with a choice, the desktop app or the metro app, essentially forcing people to sort their file associations, but without having to get too technical about it, just as it happens.

For the windows 8 machines I've built for people I've done this for them before handing it over, and those people haven't had any issues transitioning from vista/7 to win 8, although one of them I did at release preview and he upgraded it himself, and I ended up doing it again for him lol. Largely the problem is people aren't willing to figure it out, which is fair enough they just want to use the computer, and up till now general ignorance to many of these things was fine, but windows 8 in the way its configured out of the box on an x86 machine doesn't really allow for ignorance to continue, in that if you do you'r likely to end up with a slightly schizophrenic computer experience as it flips between desktop and metro. Given the legacy of all the previous windows that ms need to overcome perhaps making metro the automatic focus out of the box was a little too much, not so much things like live tiles etc, but just the way that if your on the desktop, you expect a file to open, on the desktop, and they should have maybe left it like that. I suspect the reception to metro could have been a little different if they had just done that.

theheyes · 2 Jun 2013 at 21:03

It wouldn't be so bad if the actual metro apps were any good. The default pictures app is terrible, I don't think it's changed from the beta.

Here's an idea. If you open a file with a keyboard input or a click, it defaults to the desktop app. If you open it with a double-tap, it opens in the metro app. That logic would scale from desktops, to laptops, to hybrids and tablets.

Zuban · 2 Jun 2013 at 21:19

lol yeah the picture app is hatefull, personally I think the simplest option would be that if your in the desktop, and you open a file, it opens the associated desktop app, and if there isn't one, it offers you the metro equivalent, clearly marked as being non desktop. But the downside is in a way you are duplicating things to a point, but it keeps the two different sides of the os separate, although ms may have made a conscious decision to blur the line between them in order to begin the transition, but perhaps waiting for the next version of windows to push the new ui would have been a better tactical choice, and meant that by that point, there would be more, and better apps to tempt people away from only using the desktop, rather than the reverse situation where you have people changing things back so its only the desktop.

what we hear a lot of from people complaining about windows 8 is how it "forces" you to use this new interface, which it only does if you don't bother to change it, forces isn't the right word, its just configured that way by default the only thing forcing them is their own choice not to do something about it. I don't think their is anyway you can do it though that doesn't add complexity elsewhere, but this is about managing expectations more than anything.

theheyes · 2 Jun 2013 at 21:43

I actually think my idea would work fine. The context is provided by the way you open the app, either by traditional means or touch. This manages people's expectations automatically.

The problem with segregating 'desktop' and 'metro' styles of working is that one of the biggest strengths of the platform is that you can mix input methods on the fly. Anybody who has used a Windows 8 touch screen laptop will know that it actually works well.