'Contact lost' with Malaysia Airlines plane

Tefal · 3 Mar 2015 at 16:38

That's only 2

MooMoo444 · 3 Mar 2015 at 16:58

I'm personally leaning toward it being intentional by the pilot. Surely only someone who was intending to set it down could do so in a way that it couldn't be located and leave absolutely no trace.

Jokester · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:34

norm said:
Assuming the plane landed completely intact on the ocean, as it sunk the pressure would have broken the structure, so why hasn't debris of some kind floated to the surface, if it has then it'll presumably was ashore or be discovered at some point.

Planes aren't water tight.

Tefal · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:35

norm said:
Assuming the plane landed completely intact on the ocean, as it sunk the pressure would have broken the structure, so why hasn't debris of some kind floated to the surface, if it has then it'll presumably was ashore or be discovered at some point.

They might well have done. But who's really gonna notice some bits of foam and plastic amid all the crap that's floating in the sea anyway

arknor · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:38

Jokester said:
Planes aren't water tight.

Surely would still snap in half on it's journey to the sea floor?

It doesn't need to be airtight to get crushed either, the weight of the water does the crushing not some magic with an airtight container

robgmun · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:41

ubersonic said:
Most likely killed (it's never been heard of for both pilots to commit ariel suicide). According to the Air Crash Investigation episode on MH370 it would have been easy for the captain to order the first officer out of the cockpit for some reason (get him a coffee) then lock the door and disable the cabin pressure, knocking out and killing everyone in the cabin (cabin air masks only last 10 minutes whereas cockpit masks last hours).

The only three feasible explanations: pilot suicide or hijacking, and the chances of hijackers gaining access to and control of the cockpit without either pilot getting a message out (something they have a variety of ways to do subvertly) is next to none.

Or some people tried to hijack the plane, and the pilot hand no choice but to kill them by depressurizing the cockpit

Tefal · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:44

arknor said:
Surely would still snap in half on it's journey to the sea floor?

It doesn't need to be airtight to get crushed either, the weight of the water does the crushing not some magic with an airtight container

Well no there needs to be something watertight for the pressure to crush it.

Otherwise the water just flows inside and now the pressure is equal inside and out and there's no crushing force.

If you ever watch the video of the train tanker being sucked to vacuum then getting crushed by the atmospheric pressure it demonstrators quite well how powerful a pressure differential is.

MOOGLEYS · 3 Mar 2015 at 17:55

arknor said:
Surely would still snap in half on it's journey to the sea floor?

It doesn't need to be airtight to get crushed either, the weight of the water does the crushing not some magic with an airtight container

It would not stay in one piece for very long on the ocean surface if it landed at all. It would be considered a miracle if the pilot could land a 777 on an ocean in one piece.

Even if it ditched into the ocean and broke into millions of bits you are still looking for specific wreckage in a multi million mile space in 3 dimensions. The oceans are littered with rubbish and similar wreckage. It could take years before any identifiable pieces washed up. With no definite location the chances of finding anything by searching are insanely slim.

arknor · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:03

Tefal said:
Well no there needs to be something watertight for the pressure to crush it.

Otherwise the water just flows inside and now the pressure is equal inside and out and there's no crushing force.

If you ever watch the video of the train tanker being sucked to vacuum then getting crushed by the atmospheric pressure it demonstrators quite well how powerful a pressure differential is.

on the atomic level it's amazing how many materials contain oxygen , hydrogen etc

at say x 250 atmospheric pressure I don't imagine they stay in one piece for long

Jokester · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:05

arknor said:
on the atomic level it's amazing how many materials contain oxygen

You mean like water?

Hitman_Leon · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:09

And if the leaks can't equalise the pressure as it sinks it will implode or fracture at some point.

MOOGLEYS · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:10

arknor said:
on the atomic level it's amazing how many materials contain oxygen

Aircraft are designed to leak air they are never completely pressure sealed. They rely on pumps driven by the engines to create and maintain pressure a bit like a bouncy castle. If the engines fail the aircraft will depressurise.

arknor · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:10

I was thinking like plastics, the tyres on the airfraft, carbon contains hydrogen ? theres loads of things on a plane that can crush at it falls to the sea floor what about the fuel tanks which is pretty much the whole wings? surely they would fall apart

I can't believe you can park an aircraft on the sea have it sink and it stays in one whole piece on the sea floor with nothing escaping.

MOOGLEYS · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:20

Landing an aircraft on the sea in one piece would be considered a miracle in aviation especially a 777.

Jokester · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:21

Hitman_Leon said:
And if the leaks can't equalise the pressure as it sinks it will implode or fracture at some point.

The air needs to leak out for it to sink though, Arknor's right to a degree, stuff like the tyres and the fuel tanks will almost certainly collapse under the pressure, but the actual external skin will remain almost intact on the way down not allowing any internal debris and loose items to get out.

koolpc · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:21

It does point towards captain ditched the plane. He had a great sim setup at home too! I know lots of pilots do too though.

Jokester · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:23

MOOGLEYS said:
Landing an aircraft on the sea in one piece would be considered a miracle in aviation especially a 777.

It can be done though, at least two examples of a large aircraft being landed intact on water that I can think of. Fair enough, if it was 50 foot seas that day it's not going to happen.

Jokester · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:25

arknor said:
I was thinking like plastics, the tyres on the airfraft, carbon contains hydrogen ? theres loads of things on a plane that can crush at it falls to the sea floor what about the fuel tanks which is pretty much the whole wings? surely they would fall apart

It's nothing to do with materials containing oxygen or hydrogen as to whether they collapse under pressure. It's the differential pressure between the outside of something and a void on the inside (either a vacuum or containing a compressible fluid ie air in this case) and the solid structure not being mechanically strong enough to resist the forces.

MOOGLEYS · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:37

Jokester said:
It can be done though, at least two examples of a large aircraft being landed intact on water that I can think of. Fair enough, if it was 50 foot seas that day it's not going to happen.

It's do-able but it being a 777 would mean my money would be on a fairly substantial impact and breakup rather than a smooth Hudson style landing even in calm waters.

Or it's sat in a hanger somewhere awaiting the next 9/11...

Jokester · 3 Mar 2015 at 18:38

MOOGLEYS said:
It's do-able but it being a 777 would mean my money would be on a fairly substantial impact and breakup rather than a smooth Hudson style landing even in calm waters.

I would put money on it being done, given the complete lack of debris that's turned up even now, the best part of a year later.

MOOGLEYS said:
Or it's sat in a hanger somewhere awaiting the next 9/11...

Or quite possibly that!