'Contact lost' with Malaysia Airlines plane

wesley said:
remember the air france crash, the plane sent out the whole lot of details automatically.
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wesley said:
one quick question about the 'ping'

did the engine ping out or the Immarsat ping to the the engine?

thats where i dont understand. can anyone explain pls?
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As I understand it, the remote diagnostics stuff is built in by default but not every airline pays for the satellite data subscription to transmit the data.
Thats why Air France had immediate data about what had happened to their plane but Malaysian do not.
I think the 'pings' are from this data service connecting to the satellites to check if they have a subscription then not sending any data because they dont.
 
wesley said:
as far i know, the only way to disable/turn off the transponder is physically remove the fuse from its circuit. i might be wrong.

fire could damage the circuit, or totally knock off all comm aerial/sat. there were totally zero communications from the aircraft which is more 'odd' than the transponder itself

remember the air france crash, the plane sent out the whole lot of details automatically.
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Which is why some kind if professional involvement is likely IMO - multiple communication systems went dark most of which don't rely on the others - a fire might knock out some but you'd need a fire so significant to take out all (without any of the broadcasting errors) that the plane would not still be flying hours later.
 
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Jokester said:
There's oxygen and face masks already on board for 300 odd people.
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they're for emergencies to give time to descend to 10,000ft that's it.

also they keep you alive they do not necessarily keep you usably concious.

plus the cabin crerw and other passengers might notice you prying open the over head compartment to put one on,
 
Jokester said:
They don't need to last long, 10-15 minutes, they're designed to give someone enough air to last until the planes reaches an altitude with enough oxygen again. If you're flying at 40k feet and the cabin has an un-announced depressurisation everyone just goes to sleep and given long enough 10+ minutes I think like that they'll never come round again. Someone in the know can prepare for that with breathing excersises then pop on a mask from above, put a mask on anyone else they want to keep alive and once enough time has passed drop the plane to a lower altitude. They can also just keep popping a new face mask as they all have their own individual chemical unit.
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you got about 30-60 seconds of usable conciousness enough time to put the mask on.

also

I suspect though that the valves that maintain air pressure can only physically be operated from the cockpit, rather than the possibility of someone external being able to take control of them. Wouldn't be surprised if it was possible though given that some modern cars can now be hacked via wifi/gsm and take direct control of the likes of brakes and so on.
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there are no control of the outflow, they're automatic (mechanical) what is controlled is the inflow of new air.

so you couldn't very quickly de pressurise the plane, most passengers would get thier masks on and the pilots certainly would get thier masks on in time.
 
Rroff said:
Which is why some kind if professional involvement is likely IMO - multiple communication systems went dark most of which don't rely on the others - a fire might knock out some but you'd need a fire so significant to take out all (without any of the broadcasting errors) that the plane would not still be flying hours later.
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or the pilot can just pull them, if theres a fire he could hve oulled everything in a panic.

or he could have sent the co pilot for coffee locked the room then done it all himself.


a secret super spy operative hacking the plane from a passenger seat, then some how flying the plan on a controlled course while hoping from oxygen mask to oxygen mask, before breaking into the cockpit, subduing the pilots and then pulling the fuses, is not very likley.
 
Rroff said:
Which is why some kind if professional involvement is likely IMO - multiple communication systems went dark most of which don't rely on the others - a fire might knock out some but you'd need a fire so significant to take out all (without any of the broadcasting errors) that the plane would not still be flying hours later.
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I think you are trying to make 2+2 = 9

I suspect there are several factors that when added into your conclusions will point it something failing and it going down either out of fuel and full of dead people or a catastrophic failure which caused it to go off course and crash. I agree there are some oddities here, but I suspect there are more 'normal' things that are being missed that indicate just a tragic situation. Very intriguing incident though, of course sad.
 
Tefal said:
they're for emergencies to give time to descend to 10,000ft that's it.

also they keep you alive they do not necessarily keep you usably concious.

plus the cabin crerw and other passengers might notice you prying open the over head compartment to put one on,
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator

15-22minutes, and not if they're already unconscious. You can take small compressed gas cylinders on board planes in your hand baggage, so you could easily have your own discreet O2 supply that last long enough until everyone else has fallen unconscious, move to a single overheard mask and wait 15minutes by which time no-one else is going to come round again.

At which point you direct the plane to low level so you don't have to rely on oxygen masks. The guy on the greek flight that crashed due to decompression a few years back effectively did this - everyone put their masks on but the pilots didn't realise there was a decompression so they didn't descend. The air steward then hopped between his bottle and unused seats and was seen fully concious prior to the plane crashing by the Greek airforce when it ran out of fuel. They reckon his history of being a diver as well meant he could control his breathing and oxygen use better than anyone else. By the time he would have realised what was going on it was too late to save anyone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

Tefal said:
you got about 30-60 seconds of usable conciousness enough time to put the mask on.

also

there are no control of the outflow, they're automatic (mechanical) what is controlled is the inflow of new air.

so you couldn't very quickly de pressurise the plane, most passengers would get thier masks on and the pilots certainly would get thier masks on in time.
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You don't need to quickly de compress it, just decompress it without anyone noticing. It would only require you to over ride anything that would highlight that the plane was decompressing and would automatically trigger the other passengers oxygen masks. Again, wouldn't be surprised if it's all electronically controlled by the flight computers on a modern jet.

I personally think getting oxygen is fairly straight forward. The hard part would be taking control of the plane, if it's at all possible.
 
Jokester said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator

15-22minutes, and not if they're already unconscious. You can take small compressed gas cylinders on board planes in your hand baggage, so you could easily have your own discreet O2 supply that last long enough until everyone else has fallen unconscious, move to a single overheard mask and wait 15minutes by which time no-one else is going to come round again.

At which point you direct the plane to low level so you don't have to rely on oxygen masks. The guy on the greek flight that crashed due to decompression a few years back effectively did this - everyone put their masks on but the pilots didn't realise there was a decompression so they didn't descend. The air steward then hopped between his bottle and unused seats and was seen fully concious prior to the plane crashing by the Greek airforce when it ran out of fuel. They reckon his history of being a diver as well meant he could control his breathing and oxygen use better than anyone else. By the time he would have realised what was going on it was too late to save anyone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522


You don't need to quickly de compress it, just decompress it without anyone noticing. It would only require you to over ride anything that would highlight that the plane was decompressing and would automatically trigger the other passengers oxygen masks. Again, wouldn't be surprised if it's all electronically controlled by the flight computers on a modern jet.

I personally think getting oxygen is fairly straight forward. The hard part would be taking control of the plane, if it's at all possible.
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So wait, you're suggesting that someone has:

1. Disabled the system that automatically drops passenger cabin masks without drawing attention to it
2. Disabled the system that warns the flight deck of low cabin pressure without drawing attention to it
3. Decompressed the plane slowly so that nobody notices
4. Breathe using your discreet oxygen supply until all passengers and crew are unconscious without being noticed
5. Gain access to the passenger masks that you disabled earlier and move from mask to mask so you can breathe.
6. Break in to the flight deck.
7. Disable all comms and tracking.
8. Bought the plane down to an altitude where you no longer need oxygen.
9. Flown around a bit and crashed in to the sea.

Seems likely.
 
Matteh said:
So wait, you're suggesting that someone has:

1. Disabled the system that automatically drops passenger cabin masks without drawing attention to it
2. Disabled the system that warns the flight deck of low cabin pressure without drawing attention to it
3. Decompressed the plane slowly so that nobody notices
4. Breathe using your discreet oxygen supply until all passengers and crew are unconscious without being noticed
5. Gain access to the passenger masks that you disabled earlier and move from mask to mask so you can breathe.
6. Break in to the flight deck.
7. Disable all comms and tracking.
8. Bought the plane down to an altitude where you no longer need oxygen.
9. Flown around a bit and crashed in to the sea.

Seems likely.
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I'm not suggesting it was done. But if it's possible to remotely access the controls, you can do 1, 2, 3, 7 8 and 9. You could easily get your own oxygen supply on board, hide in the toilet whilst doing all the above until everyone has passed out and you then wouldn't need to worry about 6. You can easily deploy oxygen masks manually from a seat by the way. You just pop open the flap and pull on the mask that drops.

As it is, it was probably the pilot that did something similar to that since he was already at the controls.
 
Fair enough, but I can't even begin to believe that a scenario as complex as that is even vaguely within the realms of possibility.

Something like this or, as you say, a deliberate action by the pilot seems so much more realistic in my opinion.
 
For it to be done, it would need to be somebody like the CIA using backdoors given to them by Boeing and there would need to be a specific person on board they wanted, which doesn't seem to be the case.
 
Has the part found that was first suggest to be a window from the aircraft been confirmed or denied yet or is it still being inspected?

I know there were suggestions it was part of a sewing machine but have not heard anything since?
 
The only confirmed part is the wing piece, but even then it's not been formally confirmed by the French investigators who actually have it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33815009
French officials, moreover, have said no other debris has been recovered. They have also said there was only a strong possibility that the flaperon had come from MH370 - avoiding the firm link made by the Malaysians.
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Not quite so conclusive now.
 
Thanks Jokester.

I hope investigators can get to the bottom of this incident so it bring closure to the people who lost love ones on the flight and also to try and understand what/why this happened to possibly prevent it from happen again.

It is a truly baffling disappearance.
 
It's a bizarre incident - I really hope the flight recorders are found and provide real information about what happened.

With regards to the flaperon not being confirmed - I think that must just be a large degree of arse covering by the French officials right? I mean, they confirmed it's off a 777 and so surely it must have come from MH370? Or have I missed some other development?
 
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