'Contact lost' with Malaysia Airlines plane

Moses said:
Rather than thinking of convoluted ways in which they could have done it - I mean, no one's pretending someone couldn't take control of an aeroplane - what about the why? The how isn't the biggest leap of faith here... I'm yet to hear a convincing reason why taking control of this plane/hijacking it/crashing it/whatever would be a good idea for the actors involved.
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To get hold of someone with no chance of a 3rd party intervening and making them disappear in a way that wouldn't necessarily alert that 3rd party to then taking countermeasures in a timely fashion.

Intelligence agencies/military have no real qualms of causing collateral deaths if it means they get their man.
 
Tefal said:
or the pilot can just pull them, if theres a fire he could hve oulled everything in a panic.

or he could have sent the co pilot for coffee locked the room then done it all himself.
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Housey said:
I think you are trying to make 2+2 = 9

I suspect there are several factors that when added into your conclusions will point it something failing and it going down either out of fuel and full of dead people or a catastrophic failure which caused it to go off course and crash. I agree there are some oddities here, but I suspect there are more 'normal' things that are being missed that indicate just a tragic situation. Very intriguing incident though, of course sad.
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Admittedly I have a rudimentary understanding of the systems at best but to my knowledge you can't just pull all the systems at once with one action and the act of taking 1 system offline intentionally will be broadcast by others (as can be seen in other accidents/incidents) even if you pull them really quickly (unless you go to deliberate lengths which would be unusual in a normal accident scenario) - when they all drop out like that in one go that its usually due to catastrophic failure in which case the plane should be somewhere close to where it last made contact.

@Housey agree with the last point - its entirely possible there are "normal" factors that have been missed that could put a completely different light on things that currently seem odd.
 
Tefal said:
there are no control of the outflow, they're automatic (mechanical) what is controlled is the inflow of new air.
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No it's the outflow of the air that is controlled. You get the new air whether you like it or not, the outflow valve controls the air out and regulates the pressure, not the pack. If we do a pressure run we flick it to manual and control the cabin altitude on the outflow valve.



Jokester said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator

, so you could easily have your own discreet O2 supply that last long enough until everyone else has fallen unconscious, move to a single overheard mask and wait 15minutes by which time no-one else is going to come round again..
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Although your whole scenario has given me a chuckle, you don't need to do that. You have therapeutic portable oxy on board as well as the CG's. A 320 (for example) has six 3000 psi bottles. Two forward, two aft, two mid cabin. You don't need to smuggle them on. They are clearly marked and easily accessible. One of the crew on Helios was on one before the engines flamed out.
 
Danny, I read the first half of your comment thinking about Helios, then you mentioned it in the second part.

+1 to above though, you get fresh air like it or not, pressurisation is essentially the control of air out. Basically a controlled leak, normally on auto but has a manual override. Lots of annunciators if you have it in manual mind you to remind you.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Although your whole scenario has given me a chuckle, you don't need to do that. You have therapeutic portable oxy on board as well as the CG's. A 320 (for example) has six 3000 psi bottles. Two forward, two aft, two mid cabin. You don't need to smuggle them on. They are clearly marked and easily accessible. One of the crew on Helios was on one before the engines flamed out.
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Indeed, but you can't just readily help yourself to them before hand can you?

Moses said:
But there was a chance of a third party intervening. Civilian radar or militaries in different countries could have ended up intervening. And if some super weird thing happened to a super important person, don't you think the people wouldn't put their countermeasures in action? I don't see your explanation as compelling, at all. Flesh it out a bit? What sort of person with what sort of knowledge?
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Someone with weapons technology knowledge perhaps that you didn't want to fall into enemy hands or double agent extraction.

They could have intervened if they knew about it, intelligence agencies and military would tend to know about the sorts of capabilities of military radar sites so could easily plot a route that avoids active radar systems.

Hijack plane, get your man, leave the plane to crash in the middle of nowhere. First thing anyone knows about it is hours later by the time your long gone and by the time anyone actually finds the wreckage, there wouldn't be bodies left to count.

And yes, they could stage a car crash, blow up a fishing boat or what ever to fake a disappearance, but sometimes they only get certain opportunities to do things. What if the guy had a minder/body guard? Such an attack also renders him incapable of intervening.
 
Rroff said:
Admittedly I have a rudimentary understanding of the systems at best but to my knowledge you can't just pull all the systems at once with one action and the act of taking 1 system offline intentionally will be broadcast by others (as can be seen in other accidents/incidents) even if you pull them really quickly (unless you go to deliberate lengths which would be unusual in a normal accident scenario) - when they all drop out like that in one go that its usually due to catastrophic failure in which case the plane should be somewhere close to where it last made contact.

@Housey agree with the last point - its entirely possible there are "normal" factors that have been missed that could put a completely different light on things that currently seem odd.
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That is the stuff that intrigues me and does lead one to speculate. Hope they find a black box and we can get to the details.
 
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