Caporegime
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Core 9000 series
- Thread starter orbitalwalsh
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Feb 2011
- Posts
- 5,849
Dunno about you lot but when I rebuild my PC every 3 years or so I set a budget, last time was £1.5k, next rebuild will be next year and budget is £2k, for that I need CPU, mobo, ram, cooler and GPU.
I won't buy Nvidia at the current prices as they are just ridiculous, if I did buy Nvidia it would be the 1080ti and I would go down the G-Sync 1440p route... So that's a big portion of budget gone, and I'm moving from an 8c/16t 1700, so my CPU will have to be at minimum the same core counts. It just makes absolute sense to stay AMD as the bang for buck fitting the rest of the budget is unparalleled.
If AMD manage to get a Vega 64 replacement out next year I can go for that too for replacing my 1070 and go back to Freesync.
If I was to go down the 2080ti + 9900k route even with some discounts next year your still looking at £1500 or so on 2 components.. ludicrous.
I won't buy Nvidia at the current prices as they are just ridiculous, if I did buy Nvidia it would be the 1080ti and I would go down the G-Sync 1440p route... So that's a big portion of budget gone, and I'm moving from an 8c/16t 1700, so my CPU will have to be at minimum the same core counts. It just makes absolute sense to stay AMD as the bang for buck fitting the rest of the budget is unparalleled.
If AMD manage to get a Vega 64 replacement out next year I can go for that too for replacing my 1070 and go back to Freesync.
If I was to go down the 2080ti + 9900k route even with some discounts next year your still looking at £1500 or so on 2 components.. ludicrous.
Caporegime
I just bought a new screen, a 32" whopper
and its Free-Sync, lets see if 2019 brings an AMD upgrade to my 1070, if its there at a reasonable price i too will get to use Free-Sync, finally, the screen this one replaced was also Free-Sync, apart from a couple of weeks i never really got to use it. 
I buy as I need or fancy. Not needed to upgrade my 4770K and I probably still won’t for another 2-3 years by the looks of it. But I just may fancy a zen 2 next year if performance is good and it has over 10 cores.
Honestly I don’t think I would need to spend a penny more on my PC until next gen consoles come out or Cyberpunk 2077. As Jensen says, everything just works
Associate
- Joined
- 28 Sep 2018
- Posts
- 2,422
The length of ones upgrade cycle is also a large determining factor in perceived value.
As I’m going from a 2600k setup, the MSRP of the 8700k and 9900k are fine because I’ve sweated my equity much longer than someone on a 2-3yr cycle.
I’m of the mind that I’ll put the equity in now for a refresh that I can carry forward for another 6 years thus lowering my TCO. For me, that delta is easier to absorb and come to terms with.
Those on shorter cycles will need the prices to remain stagnant or incremental upticks to remain at the same value ratio.
People need to do a better job of evaluating their own circumstances and habits rather than offering blanket analysis. Unless we are all on a synced up buying cycle, it means little.
That’s independent of use cases
Soldato
Before I retired at the start of this year, I purchased a 1 series Ryzen 7 1700 with a top end mobo and memory as a present to self. This was the most that I have ever paid for a processor (yes early adopter tax) in 28 years, I am with @easyrider on this though, into overclocking to unlock performance, not necessarily with top end kit but to get more than I would do without paying top end prices.
Now my income has halved from £50k, I will be a bit more resistant to huge upgrades and a £450 - 600 CPU is very unlikely, I will watch with interest from the sidelines.
Now my income has halved from £50k, I will be a bit more resistant to huge upgrades and a £450 - 600 CPU is very unlikely, I will watch with interest from the sidelines.
Soldato
Lets not forget the 9500Non Pro and "the pencil mode" making it 9700Pro
But I agree with you. I can afford this expensive hardware, hell I can afford even the upcoming PG35VQ monitor.
However I do not see value, hope you understand.
As for the overclocking fun section, found it the moment sold the GTX1080Ti and bought a Vega 64 Nitro, four months ago.
Have a look at the owners discussion there over the period, how many joined tweaking that card, and every week a new set of settings comes out by a member.
(lets not forget soft power tables etc)
Or look at the fun we have with TonyTurbo breaking the benchmark (eg Firestrike) records Kaapstad was holding with his monster 18 core CPUs, while using a humble 8700K.
Pretty sure the R5 2600X would still be better value for gaming (frames per £). Maybe even the i5-8400 before the Intel shortages started.
But they are intrinsically linked. I assume by "the best" you mean "best performing" because there are many categories in which a product can be "the best". No-one here has questioned the performance of the i9-9900K, as far as I can tell, but performance isn't the only metric to consider. There's performance, cost, security, platform longevity and support, warranty, power consumption, thermal performance, etc. Even if you ONLY consider performance, there's still the matter of being able to make use of the performance in the first place. An i9-9900K would be significantly faster than my current chip but I currently have no real use for that performance increase.
Yes some people literally just want halo products without considering anything else because they like the brand (e.g. iPhone X) or are enthusiasts and want to sample the latest in technology, and that's fine. But to pretend like it's a great purchase or good value (without the price gouging) is just silly: halo products almost never are. Funnily enough, AMD's halo products are currently good value but that's because they are aggressively trying to get back into a market. Back in the day, their original FX series CPUs were certainly not good value.
Where does your "people use CPUs for 3 years on average" stat come from? The same place your oft-touted "most people use a 1080 Ti at 1080p" stat comes from, presumably. You never seem to listen to arguments against your points because you keep bringing up the same stuff as if it hasn't been heard before. "The Intel will be quicker in games", yes, assuming you have:
- have a high end GPU to utilise it;
- have a high refresh rate monitor to utilise it;
- play games that take advantage of it.
Yes there will be 13 people doing that.
I dont get the oem vs retail issue, you basically get a pretty box wow, LOL.
Also I also dont get the obsession with warranty on here either, generally speaking if a pc component works for the first few months after buying it then it will last unless you do something stupid like power spike it or put liquid on it, the exception is perhaps fans or mechanical drives. But not gpus, and cpus.
Before hitting submit tho I thought again and remembered OCUK sell prebinned cpu's, whilst gibbo has stated they dont fiddle with the pool in the warehouse, knowing they do the binning, I probably would be a bit iffy taking an oem chip. I didnt edit my post so people see my thought process when I posted.
Also I see how da8eur managed to keep the delidding business alive by discovering that the new soldering process is not optimal, a too thick cpu leading to same temp issues as the older non solder solution, except now its harder for DIY delidders to fix than before.
Also I will admit the 9700k didnt perform as well as I expected it to vs the 8700k.
Also I also dont get the obsession with warranty on here either, generally speaking if a pc component works for the first few months after buying it then it will last unless you do something stupid like power spike it or put liquid on it, the exception is perhaps fans or mechanical drives. But not gpus, and cpus.
Before hitting submit tho I thought again and remembered OCUK sell prebinned cpu's, whilst gibbo has stated they dont fiddle with the pool in the warehouse, knowing they do the binning, I probably would be a bit iffy taking an oem chip. I didnt edit my post so people see my thought process when I posted.
Also I see how da8eur managed to keep the delidding business alive by discovering that the new soldering process is not optimal, a too thick cpu leading to same temp issues as the older non solder solution, except now its harder for DIY delidders to fix than before.
Also I will admit the 9700k didnt perform as well as I expected it to vs the 8700k.
Meaning the clock is 5ghz, AVX offset is akin to a cheat mode, so much software triggers the AVX clocks these days.
This 9000 series isnt good, high prices, high temps, high power usage and as a bonus lower clocks vs 8th gen.
Intel seemed to hit a pinnacle with the 8086k and 8600k chips.
Apparently the reason is that the 9600k has a 9700k/9900 die, a 8 core die with 2 cores disabled, so is less efficient with thermals etc. than the older 6 core dies.
9600k 500+ in stock, both retail and tray, they will be shipping this Friday. Capped at 1 per customer, NO TRADE!
9700K, no stock yet!
9900K, nearly 500 in stock, but all tray, over half is sold, more arriving next week. Again shipping this Friday and 1 per customer.
Both Retail and Tray product comes with the FREE Intel Starter Pack including Call of Duty 4 Black OPS.
How come the 9700k is no stock arrived?
Associate
- Joined
- 30 Aug 2018
- Posts
- 2,483
Before hitting submit tho I thought again and remembered OCUK sell prebinned cpu's, whilst gibbo has stated they dont fiddle with the pool in the warehouse, knowing they do the binning, I probably would be a bit iffy taking an oem chip. I didnt edit my post so people see my thought process when I posted.
This gave me pause for thought as well.
Editorial control sucks. why was it pulled?
The 9000 series to me seems its regressed on power efficiency vs 8th gen, with the really high vcore needed, also in terms of %, and assuming multi threaded workloads, 8th gen was a bigger performance boost than 9th gen in terms of % and of course that single core performance could be down with the lower clocks, so I guessed they pulled the review out of embarrassment.
Last edited:
Soldato
I dont get the oem vs retail issue, you basically get a pretty box wow, LOL.
Also I also dont get the obsession with warranty on here either, generally speaking if a pc component works for the first few months after buying it then it will last unless you do something stupid like power spike it or put liquid on it, the exception is perhaps fans or mechanical drives. But not gpus, and cpus.
Before hitting submit tho I thought again and remembered OCUK sell prebinned cpu's, whilst gibbo has stated they dont fiddle with the pool in the warehouse, knowing they do the binning, I probably would be a bit iffy taking an oem chip. I didnt edit my post so people see my thought process when I posted.
Also I see how da8eur managed to keep the delidding business alive by discovering that the new soldering process is not optimal, a too thick cpu leading to same temp issues as the older non solder solution, except now its harder for DIY delidders to fix than before.
Also I will admit the 9700k didnt perform as well as I expected it to vs the 8700k.
My only, ever, OEM CPU was the 8600K, and must admit seen others doing 1.33V 5.2Ghz while mine struggles 5.1Ghz at 1.4v something is amiss.
Even the ancient 4820K was overclocked to 4.8Ghz without trouble, so did the 6700K 5Ghz out of the box without second thought.
The only other CPU didn't OC well, was a second hand 4930K.
Panos, Well more food for thought is my 8600k was retail and it can only do 4.8ghz at 1.33v range. There will always be losers in the silicon lottery. Of course I am talking proper stable with 0 offset etc, bear in mind some people lie or just consider stable to been be able to play games. They may also be using AVX offset aka cheat mode.
I am not saying oem binning is going on, just it would make me a little iffy buying one
I am not saying oem binning is going on, just it would make me a little iffy buying one
Soldato
Published pre NDA
I dont know how this site can consider the accuracy of their figures, but it does perhaps highlight part of the problem today, "too many middle men".
https://www.businessinsider.com/distribution-harnessing-the-enormous-power-of-convenience-2013-10
You mentioned distributors, and so did gibbo.
I know when I worked in manufacturing we sold for about 300% of production cost (including salary of staff and building rent etc.), the margins were huge. We sold directly to large retailers tho so at least they had no middle men, but smaller retailers went through at least one middle man. The large retailers because I know what they were buying at I know they were making usually about 30-40% margin. Smaller retailers were likely making much less even tho they typically charged more to their customers to compensate. This was no computer components tho, different market altogether but its easy to see how middle men distributors dont help the situation.
I got no idea how this network works and wont claim to, but I have a question which you probably cannot answer due to commercial sensitivity.
I am trying to figure out how this distributor can get away with changing the price after only a small amount of units, and I can think of giving you unreasonable contract terms, or simply that your first order was just very small, if its the later perhaps a much larger initial commit order would solve the problem? but I suppose that was too risky for you as maybe you wasnt expecting to sell so many.
If your order was actually bigger than the first shipment, but they then decided to up the price of the order after you already committed to it at the original price, then I think thats dodgy from them.
This happens a lot in pc components.
A vendor releases substandard products for a couple of gens.
Then they over compensate when they realise their rep has taken a hit.
e.g. evga made really bad 900 series GPUs, then they released their ICX line.
Gigabyte z370 boards were bad, so they have over compensated on the z390, and people are using Gigabytes z370 to z390 vrm transition as a means to think z370 has massively underpowered VRMs