Soldato
@Jamie Archer good points, and I'm glad I held off the 8086k chip. After much thought over the past while, I'll probably trade my 5960x for a 9900k... just need to see performance with all the bugs patched.
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Core 9000 series
- Thread starter orbitalwalsh
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Soldato
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Are you sure about that? got any info or links to that claim that its a) on a new process and b) contains fixes to Specdown stuff? im interested in the 9900k myself, and that would definitely make me consider it more seriously if its not riddled with issues like everything else from Intel, regardless of the inflated price it is going to be.
Cascade Lake and Whiskey Lake have officially confirmed hardware mitigation for some spectre variants, Coffee Lake Refresh is a newer design so it should include some level of mitigation.
The only recently launched line that doesn't include any mitigation is Amber Lake, which is just a higher bin Kaby Lake Refresh (14nm+, so nothing new).
Of course I'm just speculating here, but I think it should have some hardware mitigation.
The only recently launched line that doesn't include any mitigation is Amber Lake, which is just a higher bin Kaby Lake Refresh (14nm+, so nothing new).
Of course I'm just speculating here, but I think it should have some hardware mitigation.
Speculation indeed. I'd be surprised if they bother to fix anything at a hardware level - if they had, they'd probably be bragging about it. The fact that Amber Lake has no such fixes shows they clearly aren't treating it at as a high priority for their mainstream consumer products. The process being used shouldn't have any effect on whether they've included hardware mitigations in the architecture or not.
Soldato
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Cascade Lake and Whiskey Lake have officially confirmed hardware mitigation for some spectre variants, Coffee Lake Refresh is a newer design so it should include some level of mitigation.
The only recently launched line that doesn't include any mitigation is Amber Lake, which is just a higher bin Kaby Lake Refresh (14nm+, so nothing new).
Of course I'm just speculating here, but I think it should have some hardware mitigation.
Im not buying it, as you and everyone else has said, 9900k is just a respin of the 8700k with 2 more cores added, i very very very much doubt Intel has wasted any time even refining the 9 series, the only mitigations they will get is via microcode and Motherboard BIOS etc. I think the 9 series were already too far in production when these exploits became really common knowledge, and like @DragonQ says the amount of flack Intel are getting over their vulnerabilities, and given the recent capacity issue news, if they had *Any* positive spin they could use, they would use it, and increasing security on their new platform would go a long way to gaining some credibility back with a lot of upset users. If im Intel and im under fire for my leaky security issues, and i manage to put some fixes in my next product, you can damn well be assured im going to make sure everyone knows about it.
Also do you have any info about it being on a new process? as im under the impression like many others that its just a respin of the Coffee Lake stuff with more cores and soldered IHS
@DragonQ Intel doesn't really talk about unreleased products, Whiskey/Amber were just released and Cascade Lake is already shipping to hyperscalers, so they released some info on it.
And Whiskey Lake is also a consumer product so your point that they don't care about mainstream consumer products is a bit unfounded. In fact since Whiskey Lake is their new 15W U line, it's worth pointing out that it's going to be a much higher volume part than Amber Lake which is just the 5W Y line.
The process does matter because if it's an improved 14nm process then it should go through a few more design steps before tape-out, giving them some options for implementing hardware mitigation. Amber Lake is just a higher bin of a die they released in August 2017, reason it doesn't have any hardware mitigation.
And Whiskey Lake is also a consumer product so your point that they don't care about mainstream consumer products is a bit unfounded. In fact since Whiskey Lake is their new 15W U line, it's worth pointing out that it's going to be a much higher volume part than Amber Lake which is just the 5W Y line.
The process does matter because if it's an improved 14nm process then it should go through a few more design steps before tape-out, giving them some options for implementing hardware mitigation. Amber Lake is just a higher bin of a die they released in August 2017, reason it doesn't have any hardware mitigation.
@SiDeards73 Any new die that goes through the design stage should have some level of mitigation. Whiskey Lake is the same architecture as Kaby Lake Refresh, but it's using the newer 14nm++ instead of 14nm+, so they had time to implement some mitigation before tape-out.
It's not even about refining, if they managed to implement a few hardware fixes in Whiskey Lake then they should possibly implement Cascade Lake level fixes since the 8 core dies are more than just a design moved to a new process (aka Whiskey Lake).
Also no palpable info on it being a new process, it's rumored to be a new one because engineering samples seem to be getting to >5Ghz quite easily. Just soldering shouldn't be enough to get an 8 core to >5Ghz. Plus the higher Turbos and stock clocks across the board while maintaining 95W TDP also indicate something might be different.
It's not even about refining, if they managed to implement a few hardware fixes in Whiskey Lake then they should possibly implement Cascade Lake level fixes since the 8 core dies are more than just a design moved to a new process (aka Whiskey Lake).
Also no palpable info on it being a new process, it's rumored to be a new one because engineering samples seem to be getting to >5Ghz quite easily. Just soldering shouldn't be enough to get an 8 core to >5Ghz. Plus the higher Turbos and stock clocks across the board while maintaining 95W TDP also indicate something might be different.
Soldato
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Had a quick google, so the 9 series are a refresh of Coffee lake-S which is the 8 series stuff https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www...sors-and-chipsets/coffee-lake-s/overview.html but it seems to also include a small boost to frequency, so obviously they have done some work on the arch, but some of the boost may be down to being Soldered perhaps?
also they are including some new features with the refresh https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/i...ffee-lake-s-processors-coming-later-this-year such as 802.11ac Wi-Fi and support for up to six Thunderbolt 3 ports – but motherboard manufacturers will have to add in support for that technology. Hence the new Z390 etc platforms i suppose? It seems 8 series are Coffe Lake S+ Cores and the 9 Series will be Coffee Lake R+ Cores, so they are a new core, but it remains to be seen if any actual security work has been done to the core itself.
also they are including some new features with the refresh https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/i...ffee-lake-s-processors-coming-later-this-year such as 802.11ac Wi-Fi and support for up to six Thunderbolt 3 ports – but motherboard manufacturers will have to add in support for that technology. Hence the new Z390 etc platforms i suppose? It seems 8 series are Coffe Lake S+ Cores and the 9 Series will be Coffee Lake R+ Cores, so they are a new core, but it remains to be seen if any actual security work has been done to the core itself.
Soldato
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You are adding zero to this discussion
i am trying to find out if Intel has actually bothered to fix anything security wise, while it may not bother you, i have small kids that use my PC, and it contains family photos etc, id hate for someone to hack my stuff and do god knows what with personal family data... For some of us, who have kids who we like to try and keep safe from random dodgy stuff on the internet, we take security quite seriously.
Soldato
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I just think that the likelihood of them including some hardware spectre mitigation is high given that it has to go through the design process, remains to be seen if I'm right or not
Id like to think they would as well, but this is Intel, they are massively under fire right now, i just feel if they had something to shout about with regards to security, and lord knows they need it, they definitely would, so this makes me think the respin was to add a bit more oomph to the chip and the extra features taken from the mobile platform. I still think their actual security fixes we wont see for a while yet
Soldato
Soldato
No, completely unsafe and reckless to do so.
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haha shoved in orders for a few grand didnt get naff all haribo but ordered some fans for 40 quid and got some i feel jipped lolol
Soldato
Look at how bad the memory starved crappy ringbus design is performing here. That 16 thread 3.0ghz CPU from 2014 is getting utterly mullered. /s
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My poor 4670k isn't performing too well either
. Roll on next year I'm about due an upgrade.
Soldato
My poor 4670k isn't performing too well either
There was a lot of sarcasm in my post
But yes, ouch 4 threads are struggling a lot lately.
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Sorry Gav perhaps you were a bit too subtleThere was a lot of sarcasm in my post
But yes, ouch 4 threads are struggling a lot lately.
.Yep I've been patient enough it seems It'll be 5 years next year about the right time. Just crossing fingers that ram prices come back down to earth.