Man of Honour
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- 21 Nov 2004
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Covid certainly revealed the selfish/uneducated amongst us.
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COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion
- Thread starter ThundyCat
- Start date
Covid certainly revealed the selfish/uneducated amongst us.
Man of Honour
Soldato
Nobody wore a mask where I work.
Soldato
Not quite. If I think it's a stupid rule, I won't follow it.
Soldato
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personally i dont believe in Islam but i wouldn't go into a mosque and refuse to take my shoes off!
(and incase it wasnt clear.... my point is it doesnt matter whether you think it is a stupid rule, every time you ignored the rules and went into a shop or public place not wearing a mask, you were being disrespectful and forcing your view (by exposing them) on all the people who DID believe it was the right thing to do to follow the rules to attempt to minimise spread.)
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Stupid only in your opinion,
Man of Honour
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Wow, we have a badass here
Caporegime
137 IQ take.
Arrogance and supposedly intelligence
The thing is knowing when you can bend rules and when you shouldn't and not just doing so because you can. Not wearing a mask and not locking down needs to be properly considered in informed light of the circumstances otherwise it is simply reckless and ignorant.
Associate
But everyone titters and hand waves away the gross authoritarian overreach and it's imposition on everyone else's freedom. But that ignorance is fine as it was sponsored by the government and medias.
For myself I didn't care about the mask and thankfully for most of this time my company didn't care in the slightest (or the country til the EU got jealous of us stealing all the toutist money!). But I wore it where others were (eg on a plane) as it didn't bother me unduly.
The mass lockdowns and restrictions on liberties well beyond "trust the science" on the other hand I cared about a lot.
Needs to be judged in context - it is one thing if authoritarian measures were imposed while only the government were the ones saying COVID existed, another when there is an emerging health crisis with 1000s of medical professionals experiencing something real. While it is always healthy to be sceptical when it comes to things which impose on freedom it also needs to be done with full context and reason. While there was a certain amount of overreach or rather measures extended beyond where the evidence supported them, they were also rolled back within a reasonable amount of time in eventual reaction to the evidence if somewhat delayed.
And most of these measures could have been avoided if people generally could be better trusted to do the right and responsible thing themselves - far too many people will only go along with any kind of mitigation only as a reaction when it finally hits home, which is far too late when it comes to infectious diseases.
Associate
Saying there was overreach but they were eventually rolled back kind of proves my point?
Again as I've stated before on the thread when it first came out it was reasonable to be cautious. However it did not take that long for it's impact to be known in terms of lethality and it's method of spreading. Once we knew this, "zero covid" was always a scam for a connected globalised world. A respiratory illness was never going to be stopped once it had been unleashed. Therefore we knew that it would always end up being "lived with" in the end.
And yet this perverse restrictions continued and people started baying for blood. No politician or doctor was going to go against that if they wanted to keep their reputation. Any dissent was utterly crushed. Look at their grave discussions even as far as omicron where they were talking about reintroducing lockdown inspite of evidence to the contrary.
The end result of all of this is a ****** economic system, huge levels of preventable medical neglect from lack of screenings, huge mental illness from lockdowns, schooling, education and workers, huge social mistrust as people pitted against each other.
Even the "savior" vaccine did nothing apart from polarise the **** out of people and most tragically has reintroduced vaccine skepticism after all the critical work done over the years. All because of the authoritarian overreach about coercing people into medical procedures. It makes me sick to read about normal vaccine usage go down all because people were forced into taking it.
Soldato
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you complain about lockdown - i get it it was horrible................ but then equally blame the main reason lockdown could be lifted - the vaccine!.
Without the vaccine i do not know what would have happened...... we would have had to of come out of lockdown at some point but i absolutely believe without the vaccine the moment lockdown had been lifted the death toll would have proper gone through the roof.
I believe a lot of mistakes were made by our government , and the fact that they were happy to fine us for breaking lockdown and not allow us to say goodbye to dying loved ones whilst it later turned out those .......... plonkers were having BYO booze parties with DJs is for me the most disgusting part of the whole thing............................ but the one thing which did go well imo was the vaccine research and rollout.... at least initially. it kind of stalled after a good start.
I will say tho.... its not like BoJo or the government wanted to lock down. imo they didnt do it as some sort of villainous plan to keep the unwashed masses under the thumb like you intimate.
Without the vaccine i do not know what would have happened...... we would have had to of come out of lockdown at some point but i absolutely believe without the vaccine the moment lockdown had been lifted the death toll would have proper gone through the roof.
I believe a lot of mistakes were made by our government , and the fact that they were happy to fine us for breaking lockdown and not allow us to say goodbye to dying loved ones whilst it later turned out those .......... plonkers were having BYO booze parties with DJs is for me the most disgusting part of the whole thing............................ but the one thing which did go well imo was the vaccine research and rollout.... at least initially. it kind of stalled after a good start.
I will say tho.... its not like BoJo or the government wanted to lock down. imo they didnt do it as some sort of villainous plan to keep the unwashed masses under the thumb like you intimate.
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There was some overreach but I wouldn't class it as gross overreach and it was rolled back in a reasonably, if a little delayed, timely fashion - I'm talking more generally here but the way some people go on and to a degree yourself you'd think they'd never rolled it back.
Again in a general sense as I can't remember your posts specifically but people were making the same complaints about gross authoritarian overreach, etc. even back at the start not just in retrospect.
What about countries that didn't lockdown?
What about them?
Soldato
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you would have to talk to an expert on those countries however Asia i would say a combination of generally a more compliant society , so a "reccomendation" to be sensible would have more of an effect unlike in this country where that would have done sweet bugger all, possibly combined with them as a matter of course wearing face protection and what not in some of the countries anyway. Also possible some of the full figures were not either given or known in some of the countries.
however i am guessing you are talking about Sweden. I agree an interesting case, however i think 1) the notion that they went about with business as usual is not true, again i think a lot of people voluntarily locked down anyway, something i do not believe would have happened here.
also https://abcnews.go.com/Health/scath...se-reveals-failures-control/story?id=83644832 hints that compared to neighbours they were hit pretty hard.
Hungary was hit pretty hard wasnt it? but they had a very good vaccine rollout if google is to be believed.
iceland, i have no idea, i know zero about the country (low population density perhaps??)
the 1 area i think perhaps they got right, but this is maybe a hindsite thing, a gamble which paid off but it may not have done............ i think we could have been less strict about outdoors meeting (not huge density concerts etc but just a few people meeting up outside for a beer or what ever.
and also schools. i respect the view that it has hit kids really hard and it may of been worth the risk keeping them open (if they had teachers prepared to teach them of course)
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Man of Honour
If you look at the statistics 12 countries didn't have 'lockdowns' but they had some kind of rules they were advised to follow.
Countries and territories without lockdowns
Most countries and territories affected with COVID-19 introduced and enforced some form of lockdown. However, only a few exceptions included Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, which rapidly and consistently implemented highly organized mass testing, contact tracing, public messaging and selective quarantining to identify and isolate outbreaks.[380][381] South Korea's K-Quarantine system was praised in international media for its effectiveness.[382][383][384] Authorities in Tokyo, the capital of Japan, advised businesses to close and the population to stay at home, but did not have legal authority to enforce a lockdown or penalise non-compliance. Compliance with advice was nevertheless high.[385][386]
In the European Union, the only nation not following this strategy is Sweden.[387] Led by its state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell measures in Sweden included the closing of universities and high schools and asking older and at-risk residents to avoid social contact, while keeping restaurants, primary schools and kindergartens open and not mandating face masks.[388][389] However, in early 2021, new laws permitting lockdown were enacted and Prime Minister Stefan Löfven warned that a lockdown was being considered.[390][391] As of November 2021, a national lockdown had not been announced. However certain regions of Sweden have declared their own lockdowns to help slow the rate of infection. The region of Uppsala reported 908 cases per 100,000 people over a two-week period compared to a national average of 772 in early April 2021. This caused the Health Chief of the region, Mikael Köhler, to ask individuals within the region to "act as if they were in a personal lockdown."[392]
Some of the countries that did not enact lockdowns during 2020, did so later in the pandemic. In Malawi, a proposed lockdown by the government was delayed by the High Court throughout 2020,[393] until a state of emergency was declared and the country entered a lockdown in January 2021 in response to a worsening outbreak.[394] Although Cambodia restricted movement within the country during a period in 2020,[395] it introduced its first major restrictions, including a curfew and later a stay-at-home order in the capital Phnom Penh, during its largest outbreak to date in early 2021.[396][397][398][122] East Timor also enacted its first lockdown of its capital Dili in March 2021[399] and Turkey entered its first nationwide lockdown in April 2021.[400][401]
Two states in Brazil and several others in the United States did not introduce any lockdown-type measures (commonly known as "stay-at-home orders").[402][403]