creatine

[Chong Warrior]

You didn't say it, but your statement that you get smaller when you come off it shows some of your growth isn't real hypertrophy, just water retention.

Unless you enter competitions etc, thats pointless.

Then why bother doing anything at all... unless I'm entering competitions, etc?

The Creatine and Taurine I use are both cell volumizers, all I'm doing is making the most of what I've got. Both work well, both cost peanuts i.e. less than £2 a week for both

You did?

Wasn't saying I don't look good! I just look EVEN BETTER!!

 

[iCraig]

Then why bother doing anything at all... unless I'm entering competitions, etc?

All I'm saying is that I'd rather put on some real muscle growth, than just temporary volumize it, going back and forth etc.

I'm not saying you're not growing from hypertrophy, but if you like the way you look when you're on creatine, why dont you just find that weak spot in your diet/regime thats stopping you look that way using hypertrophy.

That way you can look that good all the time without having to "fake" it with water retention.

 

[Oakesy2001uk]

yea, eating proper and some reflex after a workout in the sauna does me fine, seeing good gains and its all me baby! none of this water retention ********.
If thats your bag fine I'm not having a go before anyone starts, I just think its pointless except to blow you up like a baloon.

 

[Chong Warrior]

Hmm, this is a new one on me. I've been off the Creatine now for 2 weeks.... and I've lost zero bodyweight in that time and my strength hasn't gone down, it's continued to increase!!

Only difference from now and other times is I've recently started a new diet that's very high in fat (for me anyway) high protein and low carb. It's not a ketosis diet (i.e. atkins diet) as the carbs aren't low enough but they're pretty low.

I'm starting back on the Creatine mono at the weekend, I'll post my findings good or bad. If I get my usual kick and gain around 5lbs I'll be heading for 16st the extra strength would be a bonus though

I'll also add that I'm still using Taurine and Omega 3-6-9 oil as these don't need cycling, maybe they're even better than I thought?

 

[Chong Warrior]

Found this info. Well worth a read for anyone wanting to know about Creatine

1. What is it and where does it come from?

Simply put, creatine monohydrate is the most popular and effective bodybuilding supplement on the market. Everyone consistently using creatine is making HUGE, AMAZING gains!

There is one good reason why three out of four of the '96 summer Olympic medallists used creatine: it works and it works well. A French scientist first discovered creatine in 1832, but it was not until 1923 that scientists discovered that over 95% of creatine is stored in muscle tissue. The first published report of creatine having bodybuilding effects was The Journal of Biological Chemistry in, get this, 1926! Although we’ve known about creatine for quite some time, the first real use of it to enhance performance was the 1992 Olympic games in Barcelona, Spain.

So, what is creatine? Our bodies naturally make the compound, which is used to supply energy to our muscles. It is produced in the liver, pancreas, and kidneys, and is transported to the body's muscles through the bloodstream. Once it reaches the muscles, it is converted into phosphocreatine (creatine phosphate). This high-powered metabolite is used to regenerate the muscles' ultimate energy source, ATP (adenosine triphosphate).

Unlike steroids or drugs, creatine is 100% natural and occurs naturally in many foods; therefore, it can never be banned from any sports or international competitions (unless they banned eating meat). Many foods especially herring, salmon, tuna, and beef contain some creatine. However, the very best source of creatine by far is creatine monohydrate because it contains more creatine per weight of material than any other source. Bodybuilding.com sells only high quality 99.9% pure pharmaceutical-grade creatine monohydrate.

2. What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?

creatine is bodybuilding's ultimate supplement, and for good reason. For one thing, creatine can significantly increase lean muscle mass in just two weeks. It is also responsible for improving performance in high-intensity exercise, increasing energy levels, and speeding up recovery rates. It’s no wonder athletes who use it have such of an edge over those who do not. Soon nearly every athlete who competes will use it (if they don't already). creatine's ability to enhance energy reserves in muscles comes from its muscle protein synthesizing action, while minimizing protein breakdown. This occurs because creatine has the awesome effect of super-hydrating muscle cells with water. It enhances muscles' growth too-making muscle fibers bigger and stronger.

Quite a few studies have been done on creatine to figure out why and how it works so well. There have been over twenty double blind (meaning neither the researchers nor the subjects knew who was getting what), placebo-controlled studies conducted on creatine in the past five years. They proved that creatine increased energy levels, resulting in increased strength, endurance levels, and recovery rates. Another unexpected benefit attributed to creatine was discovered as well: creatine accelerates fat loss, while building lean body mass!

3. Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?

First, anyone who is ready to have more energy, build more muscle faster, and have more endurance should try supplementing with creatine monohydrate. Next, anyone who would like to be more toned by increasing lean muscle mass, recuperating faster, and losing that extra little fat roll should supplement with creatine monohydrate. Last, anyone who is involved in intense physical activity, experiencing physical stress and fatigue, and likes incredible results should supplement with creatine monohydrate.

4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?

Excellent results have been observed in taking creatine monohydrate in two different ways. The first way is called loading. This method works very well for anyone who has never taken creatine before. Just as the name implies, it involves loading up or saturating your muscles with creatine. During the first four days to a week, take 20 to 30 grams per day. Mix it with non-acidic juice or water. Grape juice works well. After this loading period, take a regular intake of between five to fifteen grams per day to keep your muscles saturated (no need to over do it). The other method is a more gradual approach to supplementing with creatine monohydrate. Over the course of an extended period, one basically skips the loading phase and just supplements with five to fifteen grams per day, everyday. The best results have been noticed when creatine is combined with a high carbohydrate base, such as dextrose (glucose) and taken about one-half hour before training.

The best part about creatine-no adverse effects have been reported in any studies. NONE! creatine is totally safe and effective. creatine has never been shown harmfully toxic. Nevertheless, just like with anything, it is not recommended to over-supplement once your muscles are saturated with creatine-there is no reason to. This means, stick to the recommended dosages, and be prepared to experience the very best muscle, strength, energy, and endurance gains possible!

 

[alexakasloth]

Thanks for the article Chong very informative would it be worth it taking Creatine and Dextrose in the morning if I can't take it 1+ 1/2 hours before WO.

 

[PAz]

The loading phase is pretty high in that article, where did you source it from out of interest?


I have had good results using the loading/maintenance amounts from here: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-creatine.asp

 

[Chong Warrior]

Thanks for the article Chong very informative would it be worth it taking Creatine and Dextrose in the morning if I can't take it 1+ 1/2 hours before WO.

I'd say so yes, it's always worth taking it. It's just a matter of trying to get as much from what you do take as possible. I personally take 5g of Creatine 30-60 mins before my workout so there's Creatine in my bloodstream during my workout. Then I take 5g again 30 mins after my workout as this is the most beneficial time to take any kind of supplement.

This way the Creatine I'm supplementing with is their when needed most.

I think this is enough, no need for loading, though taking 5g on a non-training day won't do any harm, I do it if I remember and it's convenient.

The loading phase is pretty high in that article, where did you source it from out of interest?

Sorry I meant to post my source, creatineworld.com

 

[Chong Warrior]

Here's a few of the FAQ's

Q: creatine supplementation seems to increase muscle strength. Would it make a person's heart stronger since it is a muscle too?

A: Research has shown that the cardiac tissue of laboratory animals does, indeed, take up creatine; not to the same magnitude as skeletal muscle but to some degree. There are reports of patients with chronic heart failure having low levels of myocardial creatine, and in that situation, administration of creatine is beneficial.

Q: Is the loading phase with creatine necessary to experience any benefits?

A: Necessary is a rather strong word. The loading phase is not required when using creatine, but results of our university studies indicate that the loading phase helps you reach that magic muscle-creatine saturation point quicker than if you just started out with the maintenance dose. You can reach the same creatine saturation point by taking one serving of creatine for 30 days as you would from loading for 5 days, but most people aren't interested in waiting a month for results they could see in a week or less.

Q: Are there any unfavorable effects with using creatine?

A: creatine occurs naturally in many foods, with an especially high concentration in red meats and fish. While using creatine, you may notice increased urination, but this is simply due to the extra volume of liquid you'll be drinking when mixing your creatine. If you do not wait three to four hours between doses, you may experience some stomach discomfort. This is easily resolved by spacing your creatine dosages throughout the day or cutting dosages in half for one to two days.

Q: I mix creatine with my workout drink in the morning, but sometimes I don't actually finish it until several hours later. Is creatine stable in solution this long?

A: creatine is not totally stable in solution, so it's definitely not a good idea to keep it mixed with liquid for days, but there shouldn't be a problem mixing it six to eight hours before it's consumed. Any longer than that and you may be pushing it.

Q: There's been a lot of press coverage in the past about creatine and muscle cramping. Are studies underway to investigate this?

A: Many scientific studies have been published and presented about creatine over the past years, and we have never seen any scientific evidence that creatine increases an athlete's chances of experiencing muscle cramps or "pulls." In fact, results from one recent study conducted at the University of Memphis (entitled "Effects of creatine Supplementation During Training on the Incidence of Muscle Cramping, Injuries, and GI Distress") revealed no reports of muscle cramping in subjects taking creatine-containing supplements during various exercise training conditions. Among the test subjects were elite junior swimmers, college football players, and trained and untrained endurance athletes.

 

[PAz]

Sorry I meant to post my source, creatineworld.com

Thanks. Seems like an informative site even though I think some of their amounts are a little OTT

I find creatine disolves well in warm Ribena.

 

[Chong Warrior]

Thanks. Seems like an informative site even though I think some of their amounts are a little OTT

I find creatine disolves well in warm Ribena.

Yeah, I just use my own dosages.

As for taking it I just use about 100ml water, 10g Dextrose, 5g Creatine, 5g Taurine and throw it down in 1. Then I drink 500ml of just plain water after it to help keep me hydrated, very important when taking Creatine and Taurine.

 

[sluisga]

The postings from Goatboy make him sound like a real jerk. "you know naaaaaafing!"

Anyway my own point... few months too late?
From reading this post I remembered an article on the BBC site site stating studies had shown that it improved memory performance which could aid students studying for exams: Like myself!

 

[daztrouk]

way to bring up and old thread, but i suppose its better than beginning a new one. When using creatine it seems you have to use it in cycles from what i've read, is this true or can you use it continuously? Also i just read the link posted above, and they mentioned that it makes the user give off an odour lol. Can anyone confirm there new found stinkyness?

 

[^TANK^]

BS about the stinkyness i used it continuously for awhile but it is best to go two months on one month off as for loading i didnt bother

 

[MTA99]

Can anyone confirm there new found stinkyness?

Only ever heard of this once. There's a guy trains in my gym who takes no supplements simply because when he tried creatine it didn't agree with his bowels!

 

[Lead_Head]

I am tempted to try this out for a month or two to see if I get any gains.

I understand how creatine helps retain water in your muscles, however is this not like 'fake strength'?

A regime of having 5-10g of creatine mixed with water (maybe an orange squash to disguise flavour) + a pint of pure tap water before a workout, would I see gains?

Would simply going straight on to 5-10g of creatine suffice? Or do you recommend taking 15g as a loading phase for a week?

Do you only take creatine on workout days? If so, do you take them before any other exercise? E.g. 5-a-side? If this is the case I'd be taking it on Monday, Weds, Thurs, Fri + Sat (maybe Sunday) - is this advisable?

 

[MTA99]

Some people claim creatine makes you feel like superman and you can train and train and train......i've never had that with mono or CEE.

The main advantage i find is improved recovery, both between sets while in the gym and reduced soreness (DOMS) the following day.

The water rention thing isn't as obvious as some make out. You do take on water and you'll be heavier because of it but you'll only see a subtle change externally.

Don't get me wrong I think creatine is a worth while sup, its cheap, its not gonna kill ya and its (almost) side effect free but I think some people get a bit too excited about it and over state its effects which leads others to dismiss it as worthless because they didn't add 5lbs of lean muscle in a week and increased their bench by 15kgs!

Try it out see how you feel just don't expect too much.

 

[Lead_Head]

That sounds a fair assessment.

The best place to pick this is up is myprotein.co.uk I take it? Anything else worth purchasing whilst I'm there???

 

[Chong Warrior]

BS about the stinkyness i used it continuously for awhile but it is best to go two months on one month off as for loading i didnt bother

I am tempted to try this out for a month or two to see if I get any gains.

I understand how creatine helps retain water in your muscles, however is this not like 'fake strength'?

A regime of having 5-10g of creatine mixed with water (maybe an orange squash to disguise flavour) + a pint of pure tap water before a workout, would I see gains?

Would simply going straight on to 5-10g of creatine suffice? Or do you recommend taking 15g as a loading phase for a week?

Do you only take creatine on workout days? If so, do you take them before any other exercise? E.g. 5-a-side? If this is the case I'd be taking it on Monday, Weds, Thurs, Fri + Sat (maybe Sunday) - is this advisable?

Fake strength? What do you think Creatine is?

I think this is the main problem with Creatine, people hear the name and think it's some kind of wonder drug. They then take it expecting miracles and then llabel it as garbage when they didn't get any gains. You want maximum gains from Creatine monohydrate? This is how:

Goto the gym for at least 6 months and train properly. No skipping workouts, get into and learn all the basics. Get your diet sorted.

What this will do apart from build you a good base is deplete your bodies own natural resources of Creatine. Yes that's right your have your own natural creatine pool in your body, which I believe is supposed to be in the region of 100g. This is where the figure of loading with 20g for 5 days comes from, as it's supposed to refill your own natural creatine pool once it has been depleted.

To deplete it you need to train religiously and train hard. Your body will grow and get stronger but once your creatine pool gets low you'll hit a wall, a plateau. If you get to this stage and THEN start to supplement with creatine it will blow you away!!

It will blast you through the wall you just hit like no other supplement ever will. Your muslces will fill up, you'll put on a few pounds (not FAT!!) your energy will go up and your strength will jump noticeably. When it happens you'll be over the moon and singing the praises of creatine from the rooftops! It's that good!

This is where the problem lies though. People listen to you singing it's praises and expect to just goto the gym for a week, take some creatine and get the same results... it aint going to happen as their bodies don't need the creatine and aren't ready for it, you need to put in the ground work. It's the same with everything.

If you've been training a while then by all means load up with creatine, you'll get a very quick gain in weight of a few pounds as you get what's known as creatine bloat. It's actually quite a good feeling as it blows the muscles up. It's not essentail to load though and I'd recommend just taking 10g (2x5g) a day for first month. Take it with simple foods that will cause an insulin spike, fruit juice is perfect.

Drink more water than you usually do, about 3 litres a day. Add another litre for workouts. Taurine works very well with creatine aswell.

NOTE:- If you do all this and get nothing before you go saying "that Chong fella is a %$*@*!" there are a few people who are non-responders to creatine monohydrate. If you're one of those then CEE is the answer 90% of the time. This is a different animal and very potent. DO NOT go loading up on this stuff, 3g a day is all that's needed. You won't gain much weight with it but you will get the strength gains... tastes like death though and I swear it melts your teeth! so get it capped.

 

[MTA99]

That sounds a fair assessment.

The best place to pick this is up is myprotein.co.uk I take it? Anything else worth purchasing whilst I'm there???

See the other thread.....

IMHO start with basic whey and creatine.

CW has listed some other basic sups and their benefits. Buy what you can with the money you've got, see how you get on after a few months and if necessary try other supps if you feel a particular part of your diet or training is lacking.

None of this stuff is a miracle powder that will sculpt you the body you desire - simple quality diet and hard work are 99% of the progress you'll make. Sups are all an extra rep here or increased focus there, some of which is probably physiological but if it helps you hit targets and stay motivated than its gotta be worth it!!