CRZ Supercharged * 2020 revival *

Of course the ST is a bloody hot hatch!

Honestly...

I love how this thread is on (short) page 13 now. :p

Nath, any closer to making a decision? Do you have a shortlist yet?
 
Simon said:
But significantly less than the RS. The ST has 220hp but weight 1425kg -it has bigger wheels than a focus and a standard volvo engine.

I was only commenting on how someone said it was interesting you can move a cars class by modifying it. I just though of the ST being warm until remapped as an analogy - surprised this subtley was lost and people starting going off topic, relentlessly in some cases.
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Fine, but the difference is that the Focus ST is a hot hatch to start with, unlike the CRZ etc. The RS is just... hotter. :)

I think an example of perhaps something like mapping/modifying a 1.6 Ecoboost Focus to have ST (at least)-equaling power levels would have been more relevant.

I don't think that person was implying that ANY car's class can be changed with modifications. :)
 
These days i would say (For power/speed example purposes only):

Warm Hatch: Fiesta ST, Leon FR
Hot Hatch: Focus ST, Audi S3, Golf GTI, Astra VXR
Super Hatch: Focus RS, Audi RS3

But there's more to hot hatches than power. The characteristics come into play as well, fun and nimble can be the difference between warm and hot hatch IMO.
I don't think there is just a hot and warm hatch anymore because the class has been diluted so much. Audi RS and Focus RS are VERY quick and capable cars but not exactly light and nimble.

But we could debate the subject until the cows come home on what makes a hot hatch but i think a supercharged CRZ with 200hp would nudge into hot hatch territory given it's weight and the other work done with breaks and suspension.
 
Would it not be better to define a hot hatch in their price brackets? A clio sport is a dam sight cheaper than a RS3 but both are Hatch backs.

I find the term Hot Hatch somewhat nullified these days compared to its original definition.
 
Guess I'd better chip in (again) with my bit to 'defend' the Focus ST.

It'll depend on peoples perceptions of course but I'd class the Focus ST as a hot hatch.

Before I owned my first ST I had an ST170 (2 of them in fact) At that time you had I guess Civic Type R's chucking out 200 bhp, plus Clios and Golfs etc with similar performance.

But the ST170 compared to those was definitely a warm hatch - fine handling package I'll admit but it was never comparable in performance to the opposition due to the 30bhp deficit or so compared to the Civic. And in truth driving it you never really went 'WOW'. In some ways Ford possibly pegged it at 170bhp so it didn't creep into the territory for the Mk1 RS. Understandable apart from the fact that Ford lost money on that and only made 4500 of them.

Anyhow, jumping into the Focus ST was like night and day different, even in standard trim it had a great wow factor (for me at least).

Example being on a test drive I accelerated off a slip road onto a dual carriage way - car picked up speed quite quickly and I then went to change up a gear but it was already in top. To get the same sort of acceleration from an ST170 you'd have had to go from top gear to maybe 3rd, which with the ST170's gearbox was a delicate task in case you got 1st instead!

Perhaps things have moved on a tad now but I'd still have said the ST was on par with the rest of the high volume hot hatches imho.
 
An EP3 is a hot hatch. Doesn't it do 0-62 in around 7 seconds? That is pretty fast for a 2.0 N/A car.
Given that theory, a CRZ K20 would also be a hot hatch....
 
loltim said:
Does it? Renault 5 GT Turbo and 205 GTI will always be hot hatches. In fact, they're what started it all.
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Yes it changes but I've debated this before on here. At the time it could have been seen as a hot hatch locally and colloquially but in reality its a warm supermini. Back then it could have been seen as a hot hatch in the uk but compared to the Lancia delta or pulsar it was a fizzy little car. ..

but if you to line up a 205 gti vs a focus rs today then no the 205 wouldn't make it into today's hot hatch category.

kind of like how a 70s ferrari isnt a super car today but might have been back then , now it fits into a classic car category. ..or at keast doesn't offer super car performance as required by today's benchmarks.
 
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shauncr91 said:
Am I the only one who thinks hot hatches aren't all about power and straight line speed?
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Nope, I also think that a 'hot hatch' cannot be defined by those attributes alone.

And honestly, regardless of age, I think that if something was classed as a 'hot hatch' or supercar when it was released, it still is. Time does not change the qualities of a car, nor what made it special. Some of the '80s/'90s hot hatches would probably still run rings around the new generation of hot hatches given the right bit of track/road.
 
TehBluebear said:
Nope, I also think that a 'hot hatch' cannot be defined by those attributes alone.

And honestly, regardless of age, I think that if something was classed as a 'hot hatch' or supercar when it was released, it still is. Time does not change the qualities of a car, nor what made it special. Some of the '80s/'90s hot hatches would probably still run rings around the new generation of hot hatches given the right bit of track/road.
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Without going off topic even an escort cos worth gets shebanged by a focus rs. Uk / eu econo hot hatches like the cheap xr2 or fiesta rst or 205 would get bounced by an delta or a Pulsar of the same era.

Difference was that 205s were just light, nippy and cheap. Throw on some rose tinted glasses and pretend the rally homologation real hot hatches didn't exist and yes they probably perform ok.
 
ubersonic said:
Did you try telling them the ancient proverb "Nath never strikes the same Little Chef twice"? :P
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lmao strangely, no :p

Seems that this idea is going to be shelved them.

Maybe a different car will be on the agenda as I'm not gonna fork out for a modification whcih I then cant insure.
 
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