Cyberpunk 2077 Ultra performance

[Pete @r...]

You want get a straight answer from him. He will even ignore statements in a quoted post if it is inconvenient as proven in his response to me earlier in this thread

I have an rtx card and the game does look good, but to me nothing outstanding, but I also know that more people own lesser cards without RT. The Devs on this game, in my mind, have purposely lowered non-rt to make RT look even better

 

[ICDP]

The methods are no different from Control and look more or less the same. SSR suck. Each game can use a custom method and pay a performacne cost for doing so. I gave an example for crytek. https://youtu.be/FujNY_pHWHg Realtime Local Reflections. The more quality the more performacne you lose. With RT reflections there is at least hardware on the gpu to speed things up. You can even re-render the whole scene and use that for a reflection. Use images as reflections.

Hitman 2 reflections https://youtu.be/qx6LieL8Qjc?t=185 window reflections look as blurred as cyberpunk 2077 and control. Hitman 2 is likely capturing the scene with another camera and rendering that out to a texture. Then using that as reflections. This is an old school way of doing reflections and is very expensive performance wise.

https://imgeself.github.io/posts/2020-06-19-graphics-study-rdr2/

Red Dead Redemption

Ironically you are proving my point without giving a direct answer. The methods used are irrelevant, just the end result. So Given what you said above, does CP2077 reflections without RT enabled look as good as the games mentioned? Yes or no is the only response required, you can then elaborate in more detail if you wish. Honestly at this point given what you posted proves my point, the question is mostly rhetorical.

 

[TNA]

Yes but compared with CP, GTA5 is a real game.

I must not like real games then because I enjoyed CP much more than GTA5. I would take CP in its day 1 release condition over GTA 5 latest PS5 version any day. But obviously it’s all relative

 

[ICDP]

I have an rtx card and the game does look good, but to me nothing outstanding, but I also know that more people own lesser cards without RT. The Devs on this game, in my mind, have purposely lowered non-rt to make RT look even better

Same here, I had an RTX 2080 and now an RTX 3080 because having RT and DLSS are big considerations for future games. The problem is that objectively it has been shown that CP2077 with RT disabled does look worse in many areas, than in previous games.

 

[zx128k]

Ironically you are proving my point without giving a direct answer. The methods used are irrelevant, just the end result. So Given what you said above, does CP2077 reflections without RT enabled look as good as the games mentioned? Yes or no is the only response required, you can then elaborate in more detail if you wish. Honestly at this point given what you posted proves my point, the question is mostly rhetorical.

Cyberpunk 2077 is designed to use RT reflections. Just like Control. Other games without access to RT can use other methods. Himan 2 reflections are very expensive, not all games will spend there performance budget that way. Not all games are going to re-render the scene from different angles.

The method used is very important because its the performance cost of the method that is important. Games have frame time budgets for performance. You need to be able to hit 60fps on the most common gpu hardware.

Screen Space Reflections

Screen Space Reflections (SSR) are a huge part of Cyberpunk 2077's visual identity. The world itself is filled with light sources and shiny objects, making reflections a must within the game. That said, the performance impact of SSR is large, making it a key setting to cut if you need more performance. Our recommendation is setting SSR to medium, as this offers gamers a great balance between reflection quality and performance.

https://overclock3d.net/reviews/software/cyberpunk_2077_performance_review_and_optimisation_guide/8

https://matthewscouch.wordpress.com...-2077s-graphics-settings-and-why-they-matter/

Next up we have screen space reflections. This is the biggest hitter to performance when toggled all the way up.

Set Screen Space Reflections to Pyscho and see what happens.

 

[nvidiamd]

Games have frame budgets for performance. You need to be able to hit 60fps on the most common gpu hardware.

Like CP does.

 

[ICDP]

I give up, all he does is respond with yet more pointless drivel that means nothing. We don't need him to answer to be fair, he already has proven our point that other better ways of doing non-RT reflections exist and could have easily been used. CDPR decided not too and without RT enabled the game looks average because of it.

 

[Pete @r...]

Cyberpunk 2077 is designed to use RT reflections. Just like Control. Other games without access to RT can use other methods. Himan 2 reflections are very expensive, not all games will spend there performance budget that way. Not all games are going to re-render the scene from different angles.

The method used is very important because its the performance cost of the method that is important. Games have frame time budgets for performance. You need to be able to hit 60fps on the most common gpu hardware.

https://overclock3d.net/reviews/software/cyberpunk_2077_performance_review_and_optimisation_guide/8



Set Screen Space Reflections to Pyscho and see what happens.

So are you saying that you can't have the use of quality raster if they have RT in a game, or is it a simple fact they reduced quality to make RT look better

 

[KillBoY_UK]

The floor gets destroyed but you won't see that in the reflection. Also the table has bullet holes in in but you won't see that in the reflection. This mean no real time reflection, only the body and some rocks are real time reflected. The rest is so fake it makes you laugh.

Erm Dev's can quite easily say which objects and effect they want to exclude on the RT reflections to save performance. Doesn't stop it from RT reflections that do occur happening in Real time, which they do.

Its the only way they can do RTRT the console by doing things like that (as reducing the resolution of the RT reflections)

 

[nvidiamd]

Erm Dev's can quite easily say which objects and effect they want to exclude on the RT reflections to save performance. Doesn't stop it from RT reflections that do occur happening in Real time, which they do.

Its the only way they can do RTRT the console by doing things like that (as reducing the resolution of the RT reflections)

My point is simple. RT reflections are praised because they bring "realism" into a game. What i see in Control doesn't look real to me, just a huge waste of resources. Why not removing every RT from game to save performance? You get more FPS if you don't see yourself or the rocks reflected in the mirror. Well...then you will see the game is pretty boring but that is another issue.
Why talking about realism or how fake non RT reflections of nearby buildings look on Spiderman when you can see how fake RT reflections look on Control?

 

[zx128k]

So are you saying that you can't have the use of quality raster if they have RT in a game, or is it a simple fact they reduced quality to make RT look better

No that a game full of reflections, might have to make compromises for performance reasons. RT is the de facto standard for quality reflections. Everything else is just a lesser quality or has drawback. SSR for example can only create a reflection of anything within the cameras frustum. RT reflections don't have to have this limitation.

Rendered RT images of high quality are used in movies. You watch RT CGI all the time and not notice its not real. Games use what RT they can while still maintaining real time 60fps graphics on modern gpu hardware. Full image RT can take many minutes or many hours to render per frame.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

No that a game full of reflections, might have to make compromises for performance reasons. RT is the de facto standard for quality reflections. Everything else is just lesser quality or has drawback. SSR for example can only create a reflection of anything within the cameras frustum. RT reflections don't have to have this limitation.

I think this bot is broken, stuck in a loop.

 

[Pete @r...]

No that a game full of reflections, might have to make compromises for performance reasons. RT is the de facto standard for quality reflections. Everything else is just a lesser quality or has drawback. SSR for example can only create a reflection of anything within the cameras frustum. RT reflections don't have to have this limitation.

Rendered RT images of high quality are used in movies. You watch RT CGI all the time and not notice its not real. Games use what RT they can while still maintaining real time 60fps graphics on modern gpu hardware. Full image RT can take many minutes or many hours to render per frame.

But when you turn RT off, it doesn't need to be so poor

I think this bot is broken, stuck in a loop.

I think so too.

 

[Rroff]

But when you turn RT off, it doesn't need to be so poor

I think part of the problem is with the scope of CP2077, as far short of its supposed vision as it is, it would need far too much special casing and testing to make sure non-RT reflections worked properly throughout the whole game and as much as anything why they are a bit limited - also more instance of them in a scene, requiring individual processing, than typical for other games so they've probably had to ease off a bit for performance reasons.

 

[Pete @r...]

I think part of the problem is with the scope of CP2077, as far short of its supposed vision as it is, it would need far too much special casing and testing to make sure non-RT reflections worked properly throughout the whole game and as much as anything why they are a bit limited - also more instance of them in a scene, requiring individual processing, than typical for other games so they've probably had to ease off a bit for performance reasons.

You know more about this than me, but when RT is turned off performance isn't in anyway a problem, so I'm sure if like in other games they could have increased the details more. I just think it was either laziness or to make RT look more significant, and I think the latter

 

[Rroff]

You know more about this than me, but when RT is turned off performance isn't in anyway a problem, so I'm sure if like in other games they could have increased the details more. I just think it was either laziness or to make RT look more significant, and I think the latter

Probably a bit from column A a bit from column B (and C and D) - there are many aspects of the game which are barely up to beta standards just about got to where they are working but lacking polish or a full feature set.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

My point is simple. RT reflections are praised because they bring "realism" into a game. What i see in Control doesn't look real to me, just a huge waste of resources. Why not removing every RT from game to save performance? You get more FPS if you don't see yourself or the rocks reflected in the mirror. Well...then you will see the game is pretty boring but that is another issue.
Why talking about realism or how fake non RT reflections of nearby buildings look on Spiderman when you can see how fake RT reflections look on Control?

Which is very different point to it not real time RT, you have gone from a objective argument to a subjective one. I never said it was realistic or if I liked the look or not I was just correcting a falsehood.

"Huge waste or resources" again subjective (people said pixel shaders where a waste as well in the earlier days), The alterative to RT reflections is SSR which has limitations due to them being scree space only and can cost almost as much and RT reflections on the high end in terms of performance, cubemaps which are well are rubbish in 2020 and require a lot of manual work to setup and to look "ok", you could go hardcore and do render to texture on all reflective surfaces which will tank performance even more than SSR or RT after a couple of surfaces

RT is like rasterization just a way of rendering not a art style, you don't like how Remedy has used it which is fine.

 

[DanF]

off topic but are there any RT only game engines being developed? guessing we're another 2 gens from the big ones doing it.

 

[ICDP]

Probably a bit from column A a bit from column B (and C and D) - there are many aspects of the game which are barely up to beta standards just about got to where they are working but lacking polish or a full feature set.

All fair points but remember CP2077 has been in development since 2012 apparently, so RTX from Nvidia would have been added very recently in the development timeframe. So what were CDPR doing for the previous 7 years if it took RT to get half way decent looking reflections in the game?

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

So what were CDPR doing for the previous 7 years if it took RT to get half way decent looking reflections in the game?

researching the size of certain body parts.