Declining attitude to law and order

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Vigilantes are already alive and well in East Germany, I think the authorities are seriously worried about major civil disorder soon. They appear surprised by this turn of events...
 
Chris Wilson said:
Vigilantes are already alive and well in East Germany, I think the authorities are seriously worried about major civil disorder soon. They appear surprised by this turn of events...
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That's what I laughed at. How did that not see it coming?! It's an entirely predictable reaction.
If the state isn't going to manage a situation then the people will.
 
BowdonUK said:
This country went downhill when the police stopped walking the streets and started driving around in cars. The moment they did that they stopped being a crime prevention force and changed to a reactive force. They are now reacting to crime, but because there is no prevention crime that harms the every day public is shooting up and I bet most of it isn't reported to the police. Unless its a clear cut case, or of a serious nature then the police (as an institution) arent that bothered. They probably even dislike it because now thats another crime thats either not going to be solved, or if they do find the offender they fill out a load of paper work only for the courts to give the offender a slap on the wrist and he's back out of the street the same day.
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Sadly I haven't been pro-active in a long while and that's not through choice. My team's strength has been cut down to around half and all we have time for is to respond to calls. If we ever truly wanted to go back to beat policing we'd need to increase numbers drastically as we wouldn't be able to cope as things stand. This is on top of response officers having to deal with secondary investigations, upto and including GBH, so victims of crime are really getting a raw deal.

Honestly speaking though policing in this country needs a radical overhaul as things are in dire straits right now, especially as detectives and skilled senior PCs are leaving in droves.
 
Soviet said:
Sadly I haven't been pro-active in a long while and that's not through choice. My team's strength has been cut down to around half and all we have time for is to respond to calls. If we ever truly wanted to go back to beat policing we'd need to increase numbers drastically as we wouldn't be able to cope as things stand. This is on top of response officers having to deal with secondary investigations, upto and including GBH, so victims of crime are really getting a raw deal.

Honestly speaking though policing in this country needs a radical overhaul as things are in dire straits right now, especially as detectives and skilled senior PCs are leaving in droves.
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Thank you for your service, especially in these difficult times.

About 30 years ago my local town had its own police station when the population was probably at around half of what it is today. But in that duration the police station closed and now all duties have been transfered to to the nearest big town that is on any route 12 minutes (or 3.5 miles) away. Unless a police car happens to be travelling near by the town then there is no way to reach a crime in progress.

I know there is a similar situation happening with the retention of prison officers. A report today shows how many prison officers are smuggling in banned items. My opinion on this, partly from a close relative quiting the job due to stress, and watching some recent documentaries, the prison officers are outnumbered and surrounded by prisoners. So its not that far fetched that they have a lot of pressure put on them in an understaffed service, especially when there is potentially physical danger.

I agree with the overhaul of law enforcement and how it is run is in dire need of a change. I get the feeling that many government officials live in ivory towers and seem to distant away from the problem that it never affects them. I think there as been wholesale mismanagement of the governments finances (possible corruption) as well as the stopping of foreign aid money until our country is back under control. I think a lot of politicians continue to give away money because they don't want to accept how bad the situation is.
 
Skunkworks said:
Stop foreign aid and give it to the police.
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That would help but my local MP is of Indian descent so she loves to help out India, even though their economy is on the up while we are on the down. It's not racist to call her out on this but if you do it then you get the SJW come out and slay you down.
 
In a nut Shell.

Orionaut said:
Well, I guess That's what you get for the Police spending the last 25 years or so placing "Diversity" and "Showing solidarity" with societies weird fringe above basic police work!

We live in a world where, over the last 30 years or so, the Police have managed to alienate and lose the respect of the middle classes. nearly 90% of housebreaking and vehicle thefts go unsolved (Heres your crime number, just claim on the insurance and stop bothering us). Field, Factory or Village green invaded by Travelers (Sorry, Civil Matter, nothing to do with us)

But HOLY CRAP, 1MPH over the speed limit and here's your ticket you Baby-killer!

Meanwhile they have also lost the respect of the Criminals as a result of routinely overlooking criminal activities (Sometimes very serious ones-Rotherham anybody?) and trying to be every-bodies friend in order to "Promote good community relations".

Add to that already toxic mix and we also have a Judicial system that seems to think it is acceptable for multiple repeat offenders, sometimes with literally Dozens of convictions to their name, to still have their freedom!

How we get back from this sorry state of affairs I really dont know. But sadly I suspect that even with a concerted effort, it would still take a generation to repair the damage. :/
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Skunkworks said:
Stop foreign aid and give it to the police.
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The problem is when the UK gives foreign aid, they lend the money with interest. That's all the UK gov cares about "how much money can we make from X country, so we can fill our back pockets with bonuses"

If they give the money to the UK police force instead there will be no financial gain for UK the gov.
 
BowdonUK said:
So now the offenders have been told that you have reported them and now you are MORE likely to come under attack especially if they know where you live.
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I didn't think personal information was relayed to the accused. Do you have a link stating that?

I can imagine some crimes wouldn't be overly hard to work out who reported you.
 
BowdonUK said:
Thank you for your service, especially in these difficult times.

About 30 years ago my local town had its own police station when the population was probably at around half of what it is today. But in that duration the police station closed and now all duties have been transfered to to the nearest big town that is on any route 12 minutes (or 3.5 miles) away. Unless a police car happens to be travelling near by the town then there is no way to reach a crime in progress.

I know there is a similar situation happening with the retention of prison officers. A report today shows how many prison officers are smuggling in banned items. My opinion on this, partly from a close relative quiting the job due to stress, and watching some recent documentaries, the prison officers are outnumbered and surrounded by prisoners. So its not that far fetched that they have a lot of pressure put on them in an understaffed service, especially when there is potentially physical danger.

I agree with the overhaul of law enforcement and how it is run is in dire need of a change. I get the feeling that many government officials live in ivory towers and seem to distant away from the problem that it never affects them. I think there as been wholesale mismanagement of the governments finances (possible corruption) as well as the stopping of foreign aid money until our country is back under control. I think a lot of politicians continue to give away money because they don't want to accept how bad the situation is.
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Thank you. You're right. The fact of the matter is that policing has almost totally disregarded the Peelian principles and suffers so much interference from outside influences, and continues to do so. The government know full well how bad the situation is, especially with how bad knife and gang culture is in London alone, but it was only several years ago that MPs chastised the police for using stop and search and hence it was totally scaled back to the point that nobody dared do it. Now officers are urged to use it all the time, but the damage has been done and I know my colleagues are reluctant to "put hands in pockets" for fear of racial complaints. And again, that goes back to my previous post that we simply don't have enough officers to take the time to walk around violence hot spots and challenge gang behaviour.

It's a sad sight. When I joined I was proud of how effective the service we provided was. We were pro-active, put away dangerous criminals and drug runners and prevented serious harm. Now all I find myself doing each set of shifts is looking for "mispers" (missing people) that aren't missing, dealing with mental health in the community on a daily basis and picking up the pieces where social services have passed the buck to us.
The first stage would be to have police deal with crime and crime alone (that might ring some bells) but right now we're the end of the line service that can't say no.
 
Mynight said:
I didn't think personal information was relayed to the accused. Do you have a link stating that?
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For some crimes its common sense. If we lived in the same area and knew of each other and I've beaten you up on Friday night and soon after the police knock on my door I know you've reported me. This is why in a lot of rough areas nobody reports those kind of crimes to the police for fear of reprisals.
 
BowdonUK said:
For some crimes its common sense. If we lived in the same area and knew of each other and I've beaten you up on Friday night and soon after the police knock on my door I know you've reported me. This is why in a lot of rough areas nobody reports those kind of crimes to the police for fear of reprisals.
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Sorry, I read your post as though the police told them "X has reported you". My mistake.
 
VincentHanna said:
Another example:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-45387863
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Excellent, excellent. Youth involved in violent affray gets Tasered and has a seizure. Good news. I am quite happy I am extremely unlikely to be Tasered, and quite happy those that are may suffer serious consequences :) It increases their deterrent factor. Personally I'd prefer our police to be routinely armed with firearms as they have more reliable stopping power and a much better range, but a Taser is better than a truncheon I suppose.
 
As usual Chris "more guns" Wilson is here to tell it straight, except that more guns would just mean more reason for criminals to have them, what a surprise that would be huh.

The sheer transparency of the worthlessness of that argument is gross and underwhelming, the police did just fine before guns, maybe its social policy that's the real danger to the public, the public that can never hope to own anything in this country is a public that's got nothing to defend... Guns won't change the **** hole this country is.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
genuine questions;

how many times have you called the police for help?

how many times has the police actually done anything of use when they investigated?

how many times have you helped or aided individuals in need of help in a law breaking situation?
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I called 999 on witnessing a daylight assault in the centre of town a few years ago. I followed at a distance the person responsible until the police arrived and arrested them. I helped a store security guard restrain a shoplifter till the police arrived more recently. About a month ago I saw a lad loading a load of coffee into the bottom of a pushchair in Sainsbury's, informed the staff and he was confronted and goods returned. There are probably others over the years.

Luckily where I live is relatively low crime area and don't need to go to places that have a lot of trouble. But I won't just stand by and think "not my problem".
 
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Soviet said:
especially as detectives and skilled senior PCs are leaving in droves
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I'm seeing this across industry at the moment not just law enforcement - there just isn't the value placed in and investment any more in skilled and experience people generally to the long term detriment.
 
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