Declining attitude to law and order

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mmj_uk said:
We don't really know the specific circumstances behind the incident but I can't help but think that tasers are a solution to a problem the police themselves have created by employing so many not physically suitable for the job.
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I apologise if I've got you confused with another poster but I think I've seen you post words to this effect quite a few times you seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about it.

Not sure where you draw the line though, there's always someone bigger and stronger, and while it's helps as someone above average size and fairly physical life style I've had my arse handed to me plenty of times by people smaller both in sport and in some of the unfortunate times I've got in scraps.
 
mmj_uk said:
We don't really know the specific circumstances behind the incident but I can't help but think that tasers are a solution to a problem the police themselves have created by employing so many not physically suitable for the job.
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Not even close, especially when you consider that all AFOs are armed with one and they don't tend to have an issue with physical ability.

Taser provides officers with another option to use, and in most instances it's safer for everyone involved than getting into a physical brawl.
 
Swords, that's what they need, big swords. Sharp ones. Cutlasses, rapiers, sabres, that shimmering cold blued steel.

"The dining area of McDonald's was awash with blood as the gallant officers cleaved Big Macs and heads alike when they brought the misuse of the company's ablutions and some impoliteness to their staff in check".

Ahh, that's better, I think I'll have my mid morning cuppa now.... ;)
 
Freebird101 said:
https://www.asp-usa.com/collections/batons

Fairly sure they still use batons from this manufacturer. You don't see them because you don't make it out of the pub in Shropshire.
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One of the many beauties of living in a peaceful, ultra low crime county. Didn't come here to see truncheons or "batons". Did you know Shropshire has one of the lowest immigrant counts in England? And some lovely picturesque pubs!
 
Whilst I'm pretty against the US gun gulture I find it bizzare that most British police are not armed, espcially in large cities. It's cringlewrothy watching them trying to taze people.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Swords, that's what they need, big swords. Sharp ones. Cutlasses, rapiers, sabres, that shimmering cold blued steel.

"The dining area of McDonald's was awash with blood as the gallant officers cleaved Big Macs and heads alike when they brought the misuse of the company's ablutions and some impoliteness to their staff in check".

Ahh, that's better, I think I'll have my mid morning cuppa now.... ;)
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/Imagines the big fight scene from Kill Bill Vol 1
 
Freebird101 said:
https://www.asp-usa.com/collections/batons

Fairly sure they still use batons from this manufacturer. You don't see them because you don't make it out of the pub in Shropshire.
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Yes they do, and they are really robust the force required to put them back in is substantial.

brothers just joined the police so I was checking out all his equipment.

When they did the passing out I went to see him and half the new officers were ladies who I would say the tallest was maybe 5ft 4. and half the blokes were stick insects.
 
StriderX said:
As usual Chris "more guns" Wilson is here to tell it straight, except that more guns would just mean more reason for criminals to have them, what a surprise that would be huh.

The sheer transparency of the worthlessness of that argument is gross and underwhelming, the police did just fine before guns, maybe its social policy that's the real danger to the public, the public that can never hope to own anything in this country is a public that's got nothing to defend... Guns won't change the **** hole this country is.
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But violent criminals still have guns anyway so..... imagine if that british transport police officer that was first on scene in the borough market attack, instead of having to defend himself and others with a stick, he had a firearm, lives would have been saved.
 
The Dixon of Dock Green era is long passed, it can only be a short matter of time until it's necessary to routinely arm most UK police officers in order to allow them to be an effective deterrent and an effective arresting or detaining force. With the streets awash with armed UK criminals and terrorists with intent on mass murder a copper with a baton or Taser is nothing like adequately equipped for the unexpected, and is not only ineffective, but in themselves, they are very vulnerable. It's no use waiting for a firearms unit to come miles to an occurrence when officers already at the scene could have saved lives if they themselves were properly armed. Out here in the sticks most farmers have firearms on the premises, and know how to use them. In the cities where most gun crime occurs, gun ownership is much lower, so the public rely virtually solely on the police to protect them. I wouldn't like to be the average city copper going to a crime scene armed with just a baton and a Taser these days, hell no. Mug's game.
 
Chris Wilson said:
The Dixon of Dock Green era is long passed, it can only be a short matter of time until it's necessary to routinely arm most UK police officers in order to allow them to be an effective deterrent and an effective arresting or detaining force.
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The alternative to Dixon of Dock Green (who was shot and killed on duty) isn't routine arming. To routinely arm a cash-strapped, under-resourced police service would be terribly irresponsible especially in the current climate of police actions being deconstructed and scrutinised in slow-time on by the news and social media via 13 seconds of mobile phone footage.

It's pointless arguing for or against routine arming at this stage anyway, it's not happening until every operational officer has a Taser and there isn't a force in the country that could afford to routinely arm their cops anyway, not to mention suffer the inevitable churn from those who choose to leave or don't qualify.

The police are still working hard to legitimise to the public the presence of armed officers at events, on the streets, stopping cars etc. There's still a lot of work to be done there before routine arming can even be contemplated, and that's without even taking into account the level of threat/violence being faced. There are far more factors to consider than hilariously exaggerated claims of the streets being warzones.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Swords, that's what they need, big swords. Sharp ones. Cutlasses, rapiers, sabres, that shimmering cold blued steel.

"The dining area of McDonald's was awash with blood as the gallant officers cleaved Big Macs and heads alike when they brought the misuse of the company's ablutions and some impoliteness to their staff in check".

Ahh, that's better, I think I'll have my mid morning cuppa now.... ;)
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"They dont like it upem Mr Mainwaring!"

I suspect most people would be put in a far more respectful mood confronted by Officers armed with Swords than Tasers/Firearms.
 
Chris Wilson said:
The Dixon of Dock Green era is long passed, it can only be a short matter of time until it's necessary to routinely arm most UK police officers in order to allow them to be an effective deterrent and an effective arresting or detaining force.
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Arming officers is an admission of defeat in my eyes, I'm not saying it won't happen but basically the country I grew up disappears once that starts happening. Are the people with children not furious at what we are seeing? There are beautiful parts of the UK still operating with very low crime rates and that still have strong family ethos where people respect their surroundings. Is this not something to value and cherish anymore?

We are being Americanised, dehumanised and awash with consumer distraction. I just hope our younger generations don't settle for this and fight for a return to something better. However I imagine lawlessness might just keep rising while decent people further retract into Netflix and video games.
 
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I think it's a difficult discussion to have, yes - arming all police would give them lots more power, yes - police turning up to violent disorder, can draw there guns and everyone will probably immediately comply.

However, it feels like arming all the police is a bit like putting the cart in front of the horse, in order for policing to be effective - the police and authority have to be respected, if the respect isn't there - all you've got is force, time and time again (as demonstrated in other countries) policing by force alone in that manner isn't very good for society, it creates divisions and problems that are hard to solve. Furthermore - it would only take one or two mistakes, or misjudgements before a bullet found it's way into the wrong person, or a person who could have been dealt with by conventional means, at that point you can flush any modicum of remaining respect for the police, down the toilet.

To get more respect and correct the attitude towards law enforcement, we just need more police and go back to basics, uniformed officers on patrol - trained, physically capable police officers, visible to the naked eye, just like there used to be 10+ years ago. Stop all of this online nonsense, forget bloody stupid things like the namby-pamby section 5 public order act, wasters who arrest someone for 'calling a police horse gay' or making a youtube video with a silly dog in it, and so on - fire all the tossers who came up with it, in the bin with all of them. Reassign the funding - get more bobbies back on the beat, in schools, in teenage youth programs, engaging with the community - building the police force to be a respected pillar of the community.

You can't take control of this problem with ever declining resources and funding, however that ghastly grey waste of DNA and skin we have for a PM is unlikely to reach that conclusion anytime soon.
 
I am sorry, but if kids and young adults have no respect for their own parents and have no respect for their teachers, with them probably at least a second generation with such disrespect inbred into their ethos, then only Draconian force will muster their compliance. They are capable of respect, but only from those they fear financially or physically.
I am glad I am of the age I am, having had the pleasure (unbeknownst at the time of course) of growing up in a relatively civilised age I would not want to be a young child now unless my parents were wealthy and foresighted enough to bring me up outside of the excesses we now witness daily in inner cities. Whilst admitting I would yearn for the Bobby on the beat nodding sagely at people, and having ultimate respect from society in general, I acknowledge this is wishful thinking and a dog eat dog society has emerged with little if any respect for their peers. I fear the longer it's ignored the more ingrained it becomes and the harder it will be to try and eradicate it. If indeed eradication is even possible.
 
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