Derren Brown: Apocolypse

Bubo said:
This was one of the dead giveaways for me, when he came out that side door, knowing that the "zombies" were inside the compound, he just goes out looking in one direction and does not check behind him or anywhere else. Any normal person thinking they might be in jepardy would only open the door a crack, then very carefully check in all directions before going out. Not standing a few feet form the door whilst they dither about what to do.
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Firstly, no one can possibly say what a normal person would do in that situation because no one has been in or seen anyone in that situation, so it's just speculation. Also, at that point he'd probably seen how useless the "zombies" actually were.

Bubo said:
Also, another dead giveway was how he remained pretty self concious almost all the way through, but *particularly* when he was asked to tell Derren Brown his name in the helicopter radio bit. He was asked to tell DB his name and he became all self concious, as someone would when speaking to a known celebrity, and knowing they were being filmed, and knowing they definately would be centre of attention at that particular moment. If it was a real situation there wojuld be no reason to be self concious at all at any point, even if you were inherently introverted.
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Right, you're a behavioural analyst with a bit of mindreading thrown in...

"I've seen a lot of photoshops in my time and I can tell by the pixels it's fake."
 
zenf1 said:
Again, keeping a fictional plot secret so as to not ruin the story is a bit different to a broadcaster saying something is real when it's actually fake.
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Derren Brown usually gets round this with his "what you are about to see is a mixture of magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship"

Apparently he didn't add that disclaimer to this show. I would highly doubt however than any courst case sueing channel 4 would get very far as it would probably be established pretty early on that this is the modus operandi for all of Derren Browns output and should be taken as read, even if he didn't actually say the words in this program. Showmanship is short hand for lieing/fakedom btw.
 
Bubo said:
Derren Brown usually gets round this with his "what you are about to see is a mixture of magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship"

Apparently he didn't add that disclaimer to this show. I would highly doubt however than any courst case sueing channel 4 would get very far as it would probably be established pretty early on that this is the modus operandi for all of Derren Browns output and should be taken as read, even if he didn't actually say the words in this program. Showmanship is short hand for lieing/fakedom btw.
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He did, however, say "no actors or stooges were used in this programme" about Steven (or words to that effect). No one is disputing that Derren may mislead or misdirect.
 
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zenf1 said:
He did, however, say "no actors or stooges were used in this programme". No one is disputing that Derren may mislead or misdirect.
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Sure you're not using a different programme?
Given you know, Derren continually says "Actors on the bus", etc etc.

And the people he meets are actors.

Although, you raised a good point, no body can predict how someone would respond in this situation, so I don't understand how he was gauged to be stable enough for a situation that's never existed before.
 
zenf1 said:
Also, at that point he'd probably seen how useless the "zombies" actually were.
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Hilarious. Oh don't they only have to breath of you or something? Clearly not worth checking behind you for a zombie at any point.


zenf1 said:
Right, you're a behavioural analyst with a bit of mindreading thrown in...
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I am just as capable as anyone in being able spot bull**** when I see it though. That, my friend, was "showmanship".
 
Martini1991 said:
Sure you're not using a different programme?
Given you know, Derren continually says "Actors on the bus", etc etc.

And the people he meets are actors.

Although, you raised a good point, no body can predict how someone would respond in this situation, so I don't understand how he was gauged to be stable enough for a situation that's never existed before.
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You were too fast - I've corrected that now.

He was psychologically profiled before the show with Derren and other psychiatrists/psychologists. I'd imagine most people would be stable enough for it as it was well controlled and he wasn't ever in any actual danger, but I'm not an expert so couldn't say exactly.

Hilarious. Oh don't they only have to breath of you or something? Clearly not worth checking behind you for a zombie at any point.
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Don't forget the show was heavily edited too, he may well have checked but it was edited out for all we know.

I am just as capable as anyone in being able spot bull**** when I see it though. That, my friend, was "showmanship".
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So from just looking at him, you were able to tell that he knew he was talking to a celebrity, he knew he was being filmed, and he knew he was definitely the centre of attention. If you can tell that much from looking at someone, I'd say you're either a hell of a lot more peceptive than anyone else, or just deluded, my friend. Since when was Steven the showman, anyway?

"I've seen a lot of photoshops in my time and I can tell by the pixels it's fake."
 
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Martini1991 said:
You think most people would be stable enough for end of the world?
People aren't stable now :p
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I think if you throw most people in a horrible situation, they won't just panic and turn into a gibbering wreck, especially if they need to take action themselves to get out of the situation. People are pretty resilient when they need to be.
 
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zenf1 said:
Don't forget the show was heavily edited too, he may well have checked but it was edited out for all we know.
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Nope, the bit I am talking about shows him opening the door, going outside without looking behind the door or anywhere else other than towards the camera.



zenf1 said:
So from just looking at him, you were able to tell that he knew he was talking to a celebrity, he knew he was being filmed, and he knew he was definitely the centre of attention. If you can tell that much from looking at someone, I'd say you're either a hell of a lot more peceptive than anyone else, or just deluded, my friend. Since when was Steven the showman, anyway?

"I've seen a lot of photoshops in my time and I can tell by the pixels it's fake."
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Most normal people with a very basic interest in human psycology can tell when someone is being self concious. Because they suddenly act self concious. I assume you know what that means.

DB is the showman by the way, setting up that scene. In my opinion Steven was briefed at various points and told to role play when presented with various situations. This would be how DB gets round him saying "he wasn't *just* playing along". The word just allows for all sorts of briefing scenarios, including allowing Steve to role play off his own initiative, knowing that is is being filmed whilst doing it.
 
Bubo said:
Nope, the bit I am talking about shows him opening the door, going outside without looking behind the door or anywhere else other than towards the camera.
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How do you know he didn't pop his head out the door 20 seconds before he walked out, and it was edited out? He might've gone right out and secured the area before he walked out for all we know, the programme didn't show everything.

Bubo said:
Most normal people with a very basic interest in human psycology can tell when someone is being self concious. Because they suddenly act self concious. I assume you know what that means.
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People can speculate or perceive someone else to be feeling self concious but there's nothing concrete in that. Nobody can say for certain what someone else is thinking or feeling just from looking at them, let alone why they are thinking or feeling that. I do have a limited background in psychology.

Bubo said:
DB is the showman by the way, setting up that scene. In my opinion Steven was briefed at various points and told to role play when presented with various situations. This would be how DB gets round him saying "he wasn't *just* playing along". The word just allows for all sorts of briefing scenarios, including allowing Steve to role play off his own initiative, knowing that is is being filmed whilst doing it.
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So he's just acting... Does that mean his family are in on it, or has Steven tricked his family into believing it's real? Or are his 'family' just more actors? Is Steven an actual actor or just a volunteer going a long with it as a favour to Derren?
 
zenf1 said:
Does that mean his family are in on it, or has Steven tricked his family into believing it's real? Or are his 'family' just more actors? Is Steven an actual actor or just a volunteer going a long with it as a favour to Derren?
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But his family are in on it.
There's still 100's of people in on it.

The most simple answer is Steven's just going along with it, he isn't a professional actor, but he knows the situation he's in is fabricated.

For the editing, wouldn't they have tried to make it as genuine as possible? I mean given the very nature of this show, it was always going to come under scrutiny.
 
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Agree to disagree on previous points. Views firmly entrenched on those, and I suspect on the following, but here goes anyway.

zenf1 said:
So he's just acting... Does that mean his family are in on it, or has Steven tricked his family into believing it's real? Or are his 'family' just more actors? Is Steven an actual actor or just a volunteer going a long with it as a favour to Derren?
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As has probably been covered before, I don't believe he is an actor, his family aren't actors. The only actors, are the actors. In my opinion he is an interested party who audtioned for a Derren Brown show, and who has agreed with Derren Brown to role play in this television programme. His family don't need to know he has agreed this with DB, and he simply has to remember not to tell them, after having signed an NDA, whilst they believe he has been truly transformed into a charimastic leader by Derren Browns little experiment.
 
a lot of making the pieces fit the puzzle going on here lol. Credulous people on both sides of the debate, have to say i'm more inclined to beleive it was real, whether thats just cause i actually enjoyed the program or not i dont know but the arguments against it being real arent very convincing, and i wont pretend to know enough about hypnotism to argue either way..
 
zenf1 said:
Have Top Gear ever claimed that the stunts they pull aren't staged or scripted? Have the BBC ever claimed the stunts they pull aren't staged or scripted?
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Apparently enough people believed it to make it news worthy.

The actor's profile has already been explained, he's never acted before. If he had, surely it wouldn't be that hard for the internet to find evidence?
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It wasn't hard. People did look it up. Up until recently you could view his profile on castingcallpro.

Keeping a fictional plot secret so as to not ruin the story is a bit different to a broadcaster saying something is real when it's actually fake.
(...) I'd bet Derren Brown is a bit bigger and higher profile than those talent shows or singing competitions, and Channel 4's reputation would be tarnished and they'd probably receive a hefty fine from Ofcom. (...) Again, keeping a fictional plot secret so as to not ruin the story is a bit different to a broadcaster saying something is real when it's actually fake.
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It's not like faking something happened for the first time with Channel 4 or Derren Brown show. Lottery reading was illusionist show as well..

the weapons you describe weren't available to him.
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Guy walks though a forest, encounters zombies. There is nothing available around him to provide extra safety in case things turn ugly? Come on.

I haven't seen these pictures but I doubt they prove anything. Please could you link?
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Google it up, plenty of third party links by now.

But if Steven was an actor, does that mean he's tricked his family into believing that he's not? Or are they in on it too?
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I don't understand which part confuses you? You sign guy together with a family to do the show. Not any different to X-Factor doing one of those sob stories filmed on location, where parents, teachers or friends provide narrative and background to main character.
 
Still don't understand why he didn't pick up a weapon, kill the infected through the fence then go to the chopper.

Oh I know why, because it's fake.
 
The life changing outcomes were shallower than a backstreet hooker.

"oh, he's shown compassion for that guy.. He's now compassionate"
"wow, he's taken charge.. Now he's showing leadership"

In each instance it seemed like Derren wanted to demonstrate each quality as if he "fixed" Steven when in reality he's had a lifetime of wrongs, and we're meant to believe they're suddenly righted?

I don't believe he was an actor, but I do think he was in on the act for the reasons already mentioned.
 
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