Description of Afterlife?

RDM said:
Because it is currently scientifically falsifiable. There is no test for it.
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That's what I meant about the subject having unknowable information - they can't bring anything back "from the other side" except knowledge. I would have thought that by now someone would have come back with something like "Kurt Cobain didn't kill himself, it was Courtney!".
 
RationalGaze said:
That's what I meant about the subject having unknowable information - they can't bring anything back "from the other side" except knowledge. I would have thought that by now someone would have come back with something like "Kurt Cobain didn't kill himself, it was Courtney!".
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If you can come back from the afterlife then it's not really an afterlife as you're clearly not dead.
 
Castiel said:
And many have experiences we cannot objectively explain.
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This is what I'm talking about, they could be hallucinating as their brain starts dying, so they just fall unconscious, then wake up and think the hallucinations occurred whilst unconscious. But I would have expected someone to come back with scientifically verifiable information which they could not have had unless they had spoken to a deceased person whilst they were dead.
 
RationalGaze said:
This is what I'm talking about, they could be hallucinating as their brain starts dying, so they just fall unconscious, then wake up and think the hallucinations occurred whilst unconscious. But I would have expected someone to come back with scientifically verifiable information which they could not have had unless they had spoken to a deceased person whilst they were dead.
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The point is that science is currently unable to explain or quantify most of these experiences at the moment, there could be a gamut (and there is speculatively) of reason for the experiences including hallucinations or not as the case may be.

As we cannot know what or even if rules apply to any afterlife we also cannot know whether it is even possible to bring back any conversation therein......I think I recall several incidences where such experiences have been recalled in NDEs, but like anything to do with this kind of subject matter it is often simply dismissed or not investigated rigorously.

The bottom line is we simply do not know and a bit like discovering intelligent life elsewhere, if and when we do prove or disprove such then we will change our perception of the universe and what it means to be Human forever.
 
bhavv said:
Delirium / hallucinations in mentally damaged / comatosed minds don't really count as any kind of experience for what may happen after the brain dies entirely.
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You what? :rolleyes: Did this come from bhavs directive 101 or are you basing this on something infinitely more credible.........

bhav said:
I believe it to simply be impossible for consciousness of any biological organism to survive beyond brain death, and there is no evidence, and there has never been any valid evidence for thousands of years of Human civilization to suggest otherwise. And no, completely non scientific psudo science and philosophical arguments do not class as any kind of proof, they are simply ramblings with no reinforcing structure to believe what they claim, much like Creationism.

If somehow, science was to determine with 100% certainty from a repeatable scientific method that consciousness does survive after death, I would change my mind. However if it managed to prove the opposite, most people who believe in an afterlife would refuse to belief it, and carry on following / believing their mythological fantasies.
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so many logical fallacies in there. Lets start with straw man. I do find it ironic you begin "i believe" though

2nd bolded bit shows how much you really know about science. 100% certainty ehh? :D

you have way too much time on your hands...
 
jimjamuk said:
I think in these cases they may have been declared as brain dead when in fact they are not. I think the point when you are brain dead then there is no return
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Morbius said:
Once you're brain dead, there's no coming back.
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Anyone detect the slight flaw in this logic ..... i weary of this kind of answer myself i really do.... (its not a slight flaw its a massive giant planet sized hole :rolleyes: )
 
jimjamuk said:
Does this not just stipulate that cell death is can be slowed by cooling the body and reducing the metabolic rate? Evidence of people being pull out of freezing lakes and being resuscitated slow this is possible. This does not mean though that once you are brain dead - however long that may take - there isnt a way back as the cells are dead
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The point is that currently the clinical definition of Brain Death doesn't require Cell Death. Also an afterlife, if there is one doesn't require a return to the same corporeal state or any corporeal state for that matter.
 
Yes given it is just an opinion of a doctor based on their observations you can imagine that the clinical declaration of death could be along any point in the process from internal organ failure through to cell death
 
Surfer said:
Anyone detect the slight flaw in this logic ..... i weary of this kind of answer myself i really do.... (its not a slight flaw its a massive giant planet sized hole :rolleyes: )
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Sorry clinical defintion aside - once you have suffered a critical amount of cell death in the brain I dont see how you could function

Care to elaborate on the planet sized hole?
 
jimjamuk said:
Yes given it is just an opinion of a doctor based on their observations you can imagine that the clinical declaration of death could be along any point in the process from internal organ failure through to cell death
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Which illustrates my point that diagnosed Brain Death is not necessarily a barrier to coming back....especially as we have seen in various examples our current understanding of both the mind-body and cognitive aspects of our existence is still rather patchy.

Also whenever someone says Brain Death=Thats It, they are really only able to refer to an individuals corporeal existence or has to make a reductive assumption on the nature of the Universe and Existence.

the whole point of the afterlife concept is that it is essentially non-corporeal and therefore doesn't require a material body.
 
Castiel you are being silly....if they do come back its not brain death...if they dont come back it is brain death...dont you get it???????

simples :p
 
Surfer said:
so many logical fallacies in there. Lets start with straw man. I do find it ironic you begin "i believe" though

2nd bolded bit shows how much you really know about science. 100% certainty ehh? :D

you have way too much time on your hands...
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There was nothing illogical about my post. The first part was simply stating what I personally believe about death.

As for your second bolded part - I definitely know with a 100% certainty that trees are real. I also know with a 100% certainty that red blood cells, and atoms are real. What you were quoting was also a purely hypothetical question, not any indication of a real scientific test or anything.
 
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