Description of Afterlife?

bhavv said:
But death surely causes a definite discernible physical reason for why nothing that would have been stored in the brain (i.e the mind) would be able to survive.
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There is an idea called Collective Unconsciousness or Jungian Genetic Memory that you might like to have a look at.

bhavv said:
Even if you hypothesize that the mind somehow still exists after death and goes some place else, how to you account for it moving to its new place of storage? How does it remain perfectly intact during its travel?
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How does a TV signal reach your television set?

Have you read anything by Rupert Sheldrake? It may all be pseudo-science and hypothetical nonsense yet there are some Quantum Physicists such as David Bohm who support[ed] the ideas he has postulated.

Personally I do not know so don't go off on one, it is simply another avenue to be explored in context.

bhavv said:
Wouldn't this movement in energy be detectable?
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It might, if we knew what to actually look for and how to measure it. Just becasue we cannot detect something doesn't mean it doesn't exist...(equally it doesn't mean it does either, hence why we are discussing ideas, not facts.)

bhavv said:
Also if you hypothesize that the human mind survives like this after death, wouldn't this theory also apply to other animals? Wouldn't it be testable to see if you can measure an outward movement of energy originating from the brain after an animal dies?
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Again, it might, that is if the human brain has the same properties as animal brains, it may be that it is a unique part of being Human, like opposable thumbs, or that other similarly higher functioning animals, such as some Cetaceans and Apes also have similar experiences...in many mythologies the soul is not limited to human corporeal form and many have express myths regarding the reincarnation of the soul in the form of other animal...some North American Tribes peoples for example have a very complex set of philosophies regarding the way in which the soul is part of the order of nature and that Animals in particular have far more spiritual weight than they do in other more monotheist cultures.
 
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Castiel said:
How does a TV signal reach your television set?
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Via radio waves sent through satellites / cables / antennaes / aerials.

Im really not aware of any such things existing for the transmission and receiving of the human consciousness after death, nor am I aware that the brain somehow shoots off magical undetectable radio waves after it dies as you seem to be suggesting. your TV analogy here is incredibly poor.

Castiel said:
Have you read anything by Rupert Sheldrake? It may all be pseudo-science and hypothetical nonsense yet there are some Quantum Physicists such as David Bohm who support[ed] the ideas he has postulated.
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No I havnt sorry, but if you have it may be worth quoting / referencing something that supports your ideas rather than using TVs as an example.

Castiel said:
it may be that it is a unique part of being Human
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Ok, in that case you could just test for an outward expulsion of any kind of energy from the human brain when a person dies. No need to think of anything unethical here, there are plenty of dying people in hospitals that could simply have some kind of apparatus attached over their heads (with their consent) to try and detect this hypothetical brain energy containing a persons mind escaping after they die.
 
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bhavv said:
Via radio waves sent through satellites / cables / antennaes / aerials.

Im really not aware of any such things existing for the transmission and receiving of the human consciousness after death, nor am I aware that the brain somehow shoots off magical undetectable radio waves after it dies as you seem to be suggesting. your TV analogy here is incredibly poor.
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Thats because you are not using it as an analogy but attempting to take it literally. The basic idea is that there is a Universal Consciousness and our corporeal bodies are simply conduits for that Consciousness...a Consciousness that is limited by the physical limitation of the Human Brain and therefore we are not fully aware of the extent of our own Conscious minds while we are still alive so to speak. Imagine a Field of Energy that is essentially the Collective Consciousness of all living things and we are simply the conduits for that energy. It is something that some Quantum Physicists have begun to postulate on.

You are not aware of any such thing because it is simply an idea, it is not supposed to be taken literally, simply as a point of discussion.

bhavv said:
No I havnt sorry, but if you have it may be worth quoting / referencing something that supports your ideas rather than using TVs as an example.
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Just google the name, there is enough in the wiki page alone to give you some idea of the hypothesis. It is highly controversial and be aware that the consensus is not entirely supportive, but it is worth thinking about ina Quantum Context.

bhavv said:
Ok, in that case you could just test for an outward expulsion of any kind of energy from the human brain when a person dies. No need to think of anything unethical here, there are plenty of dying people in hospitals that could simply have some kind of apparatus attached over their heads (with their consent) to try and detect this hypothetical brain energy containing a persons mind escaping after they die.
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You could, if you know what to look for and what kind of equipment could detect it.
 
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So take these ideas, attach it to a scientific method, and try to prove / disprove the idea / hypothesis.

Right now I am fully convinced that no such detectable energy will be leaving the human brain after death.

Castiel said:
There is an idea called Collective Unconsciousness or Jungian Genetic Memory that you might like to have a look at.
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All the names and ideas / sources you give seem to have very little to do with this topic, and / or are very outdated. Is there any significant study from within the last 10 years printed within a respected scientific journal that can support any of your ideas?

Simply telling me to look up a persons name or a theory is nowhere near as helpful as showing me valid scientific research from a journal.
 
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bhavv said:
So take these ideas, attach it to a scientific method, and try to prove / disprove the idea / hypothesis.

Right now I am fully convinced that no such detectable energy will be leaving the human brain after death.



All the names and ideas / sources you give seem to have very little to do with this topic, and / or are very outdated. Is there any significant study from within the last 10 years printed within a respected scientific journal that can support any of your ideas?
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As I said it is simply an idea, If you read Sheldrakes ideas on Morphic Resonance (like I said it is generally seen as a pseudo science in the wider community however) or Implicate and explicate order according to David Bohm which is obvious related to Quantum Theory and the Quantum Mind and the Quantum Mind-Body Problem....all of which are only hypothesis and conjecture.
 
Good god, that Sheldrakes stuff is just a huge wall of pointless warble ...

His work on 'Morphic Resonance' is heavily criticised among the scientific academia by neuroscientist and memory expert Steven Rose, and also Richard Dawkins.

Pseudo science nonsense. So basically, you cant come up with any 'respected' examples as I asked for earlier.

I'm just simply not going to read anything you link to now, its all garbage.
 
bhavv said:
Good god, that Sheldrakes stuff is just a huge wall of pointless warble ...

His work on 'Morphic Resonance' is heavily criticised among the scientific academia by neuroscientist and memory expert Steven Rose, and also Richard Dawkins.

Pseudo science nonsense. So basically, you cant come up with any 'respected' examples as I asked for earlier.
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Like I said it is considered pseudo science by biologists because in their opinon (and it may well be a correct one) it is essentially unfalsifiable however it illustrates the basic premise of the idea being postulated. I doubt you read anything other than the criticisms however in the time you took to look it up.

Some of the other principles within Quantum Theory are also illustrative of the basic idea and you would be harder pushed to discount Penrose, Bohm, Hans-Peter Dürr as pseudo-scientists however.

The point though Bhavv is not to make you or anyone believe something, but simply to have a discussion on the nature of existence...where we have no objective evidence then we can postulate and hypothesise.

bhavv said:
I'm just simply not going to read anything you link to now, its all garbage.
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That is fine, you do not have to participate in any discussion if you do not want to, no one is forcing you.
 
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One of the great follies of mankind, to contemplate something to which we will likely never know the answer.

I believe, as I do about dogs, spiders, tapeworm and Chanel handbags. When we die, there is nothing else. Everything you are and were above your physical form is gone forever.

The only way to achieve immortality or to live beyond your death is to live in the minds of others. Extremely detailed simulations of you live in the brains of those closest to you. They may even converse with the simulation from time to time.
 
jmc007 said:
Can't hear the audio at the minute, could the OP list a few well known thoughts/facts of the Judgement/afterlife from a Muslims point of view?
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The Islamic texts contain a wealth of detail and exposition of the events to occur. I really didn't wish to make a lengthy post as there is adequate material available online already. Hence I opted to post links to the audio lectures as they provide a very detailed account of, and place in chronological order, the events of the Day of Judgement and beyond. Taking the time out to listen will give you an insight more than I could personally elaborate.

jmc007 said:
One thing which may surprise some that I heard yesterday, is that Muslims acknowledge the Bible as the word of God aswell as the Koran. Do you know this to be true OP?
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Yes, we acknowledge the Bible. The Torah (Tawrah) revealed upon Prophet Musa (Moses) and New Testament (Injeel) upon Prophet `Isa (Jesus) upon them be peace. They were around 124,000 prophets; Prophet Adam being the first and Prophet Muhammad the last (upon them be peace). Only a small number of the prophets were sent with a new law (Shariah) and the above two revelations were amongst them. However over time the texts were corrupted; by the scholars who were entrusted to impart the teachings as revealed. This happened some time (years) after the prophet who brought the revelation had passed away from this world. The Quran is the last Divine revelation and remains unchanged.

Regarding the tampering of the text in previous revelation the Quran states:

But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. – [Quran 5:13]

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: “This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price! – Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. – [Quran 2:79]

"And when God said, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"? He said, 'To you be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, you would have known it, knowing what is within my heart, though I do not know your knowledge; you know the things unseen. I only said to them what you did command me: "Serve God, my God and your God." [Quran 5-116]

"And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a grave false charge, and for their saying, 'We killed the messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messiah of God",yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him are surely in doubt the following of conjecture; and they did not kill him of certainty…no indeed; God raised him up to Him; God is Almighty, Allwise. There is not one of the people of the book but will assuredly believe him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them." [Quran 4:156-159]

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say Of Allah ought but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and the Spirit proceeding From Him: so believe In Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above Having a son. To Him (Allah) Belong all things in the heavens And on earth. And enough Is Allah as a Disposer of affairs [Quran 4:171-172]

We believe that Prophet `Isa (peace be upon him) was not crucified but taken alive into the heavens and will return near the end times. After their passing away righteous rulers will prevail for few generations and then rapid decline of most and return to idolatry and their passions. The Rising of the Sun from the west will occur and indicating that the end of the world is very close. Other major signs will unfold in quick succession till the last which is blowing of the Trumpet by the Archangel Israfil and ensuing destruction of the universe as we know it. Then after fourty years will occur the Resurrection marked by the second blowing of the Trumpet. The first blowing of the Trumpet is where the audio lecture begins.
 
ispy said:
Work
And now rest.
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Eye, I though as much after I posted that.
Taking in your second to last post now.

*Edit. Why could not of God raised Jesus to life after he was crucified? Surely that shows the ultimate power of God. Jesus himself said "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?" Matthew 26:53.
I believe that he did willing go to his death as Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." John 18:36.

In doing so did he not God display even greater power and Jesus show ultimate obedience unto death. I can not understand why it is said otherwise, unless to try and discredit the Gospel. We both believe he/Jesus will return at the end in power.

Also could Genesis 3:15 “the seed of the woman shall bruise the head of the serpent”, be the first Torah prophecy of Messiah? Namely, that Messiah would be born of a virgin i.e. ‘seed of a woman’ (woman naturally has no seed, it is always a man). and see that right from the beginning God was showing us His coming Son?

I will endeavor to listen to some of the audio tonight as I love to find same truths in both our Religion, like the basic ones of our belief in the angel Gabriel. We believe there is one God and it seems if you believe that man has corrupted scripture on our side why not so on yours? After all there can be only one true creator.

Peace in all its fullness to you.
 
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After much thought the only afterlife scenario i can see having some slim chance of being possible is one where you're conscious again, if the universe is infinite then it's possible some combination of matter and energy will come together and bring you back, you probably won't even be human but given enough time and chance anything is possible, i mean here you are, it may take many googol years but it could happen, of course time will pass instantly from your perspective and you won't know it.

The other possibility id like to believe is some sort of dream like afterlife where you can imagine what you like, unlikely though.
 
The afterlife is just like that my little pony cartoon. Someone prove me wrong, I dare you. Oh wait, what's that? You can't? /thread
 
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