*** Destiny Raid & PvP discussion thread ***

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/News?aid=14016

New weapon balance are out. Honestly its nice but I'm starting too lose some hope with Bungie. They seem too always do this huge changes and something gets completely rekt each time. From reading this shotguns are basically useless now, PRs are getting some damage nerf but seriously how did they not know it would be the new main after nerfing/ruining HCs, like pretty much everyone predicted this would happen.

HC changes might be nice, may actual get The Last Curse now that it seems too be somewhat useful. LiTC on snipers should have never worked the way it does, moreover after they made a huge deal about Snipers never killing in 1 body shot and nerf'ing final round, just seems amateur tbh. Actual like the change too AR, a small increase is how it should be done instead of huge changes all at once.

They really need to look at making smaller changes more often. The "balances" they make at the moment is just a shoddy merry go round.

How about change the AR and see what happens. If PR are still overused then look at implementing the nerf there. But no, once again we see Bungie jumping head first into making sweeping changes with only very limited "play testing" to back up whether they will be effective or not.

It is of course another example though of how the weapons balance between PVE and PVP need to be separated. Unless I have miss-read shotguns will become all but useless in PVE...... AGAIN!
 
They really need to look at making smaller changes more often. The "balances" they make at the moment is just a shoddy merry go round.

How about change the AR and see what happens. If PR are still overused then look at implementing the nerf there. But no, once again we see Bungie jumping head first into making sweeping changes with only very limited "play testing" to back up whether they will be effective or not.

It is of course another example though of how the weapons balance between PVE and PVP need to be separated. Unless I have miss-read shotguns will become all but useless in PVE...... AGAIN!

Honestly I've lost faith that anyone at bungie has a clue, they basically just go around killing a weapon class if its over used, then everyone will pick something else, well time too kill that too. At one point we will all just stop using guns and melee attack, then Warlocks will need a range nerf, and titan will need a buff.
 
Honestly I've lost faith that anyone at bungie has a clue, they basically just go around killing a weapon class if its over used, then everyone will pick something else, well time too kill that too. At one point we will all just stop using guns and melee attack, then Warlocks will need a range nerf, and titan will need a buff.

maybe one reason they do massive changes to keep you grinding for the next best gun with the next best perks in pvp and pve, very clever and works.
 
I've given up on it completely.

Virtually every game is laced with frustration at how incompetent they are at weapon balancing.

The easiest shotgun fix is nothing to do with range, or damage fall off, just a blanket reducing in base damage in PvP.
Shotguns should not be able to one shot at any range so make them 2 shot at short to mid range.
Problem solved.
Pulse rifles are stupidly over powered for no reason than "just because". ARs with the same base damage should be able to compete with controlled burst fire, but they dont, as they have lower equivalent damage values and multipliers and stupidly short range.
Fusion rifles only needed a slight decrease in damage and increase in spread, instead they killed the entire class stone dead, and continued to kick it again and again and again.

Hand cannons went from being the only choice, to not being a choice at all.
 
Balancing is hard, especially when you have a rabid 'meta' community that skew weapon usage in ways that may not actually represent reality.

The weapon balancing seems about right. Shotguns need to OHK, otherwise they are completely pointless. OHK range needs be melee range, no further. That alone should bring fusions back into the game.

Pulse Rifles needed a nerf because they outclass ARs and scouts across all ranges. They should fill the niche between short-range ARs and long range scouts. Why gimp yourself up close with a scout or at range with an AR when a pulse covers all ranges better.

I've run an AR a few times recently and they aren't *that* bad, they just need a bit of a damage bump at close ranges.
 
I've never really understood this and to be fair this issue isn't just with Bungie quite a few devs do it, why do developers have to buff 1 thing.. and then nerf another? Why not just buff the thing that needs it and leave the rest alone. I personally didn't see any problems with pulse rifles, they weren't overpowered they just happened to be the strongest mainly because of 'tweaks' Bungie made to other weapon types.
 
Balancing is hard, especially when you have a rabid 'meta' community that skew weapon usage in ways that may not actually represent reality.

How doesn't it represent reality, like most competitive games people figure out guns/class of guns offer the best TTK and are consistent across the board. Right now PRs offer great TTK, and with the increase flitch are about to deliver a lot of bullets in quick bursts. I think the problem developers might face at times is they don't try and think like the competitive minded players that will go out and grind a strike for 4 days straight too get the perfect weapon.

I think the real issue is that in todays world that data gets moved across very very quickly. I used too play a lot of MMOs back 10 years ago and things where different, info on the best setups where typically kept closed too heart, a lot of people didn't want too share their perfect setup. Now its different as soon as someone figures something out its all over youtube/reddit/twitch and then with very short turn around we have an established meta.

Also fully agree that balancing is hard, and at the same time for Bungie PVP is sort of a side project for the game and PVE gets a lot more focus, so they have less resources/time devoted too an already difficult task. However I think these huge sweeping changes are not the best way too fix things, we have had this game for over 1 year now and ever balancing patch before has ruined some guns and over buffed others as a result.

The weapon balancing seems about right. Shotguns need to OHK, otherwise they are completely pointless. OHK range needs be melee range, no further. That alone should bring fusions back into the game.

The range changes are fine, but they have basically made them a none start, they have really bad weapon handling (slow ready/stow) for every shotgun, more recoil, slower reload for an already really slow reload, slower ADS movement speed, and extra animation frames. I personally never use shotguns but that really is overkill, its not just a range nerf, but basically just punishing players for choosing a shotgun which makes no sense at all. Its seems more inline with its overused so we will stop people using it like they have done in the past with ARs, FRs.

I've never really understood this and to be fair this issue isn't just with Bungie quite a few devs do it, why do developers have to buff 1 thing.. and then nerf another? Why not just buff the thing that needs it and leave the rest alone. I personally didn't see any problems with pulse rifles, they weren't overpowered they just happened to be the strongest mainly because of 'tweaks' Bungie made to other weapon types.

Power creep is the main reason they won't just buff stuff, if you think about it original when ARs would melt everything, if you just buff everything else the the whole game is full of really high TTK guns.

I do think PRs are overpowered right now, even with pretty low range I can out snipe a sniper, the Nirwens is great with this since it has max stability I can land ever shot across map. I think the damage is fine but the range needs tweaking and I personally feel across the board they should have less stability. I see PRs as a gun that needs a bit more skill but rewards you with high burst damage if you can land your hits, thats the problem with all these really low damage/high fire rate guns, you can easily land a lot of shots, flitch is great from PRs, and it just leads too totally owning everything else.
 
if you just buff everything else the the whole game is full of really high TTK guns.

Well if we all thought the same way, there wouldn't be much discussion on this forum I suppose. I just can't see the problem with this, a lot of formidable guns at your disposal which handle in different ways. Each to their own though.

EDIT - By the way I'm not saying they shouldn't tweak things or nerf things occasionally (when absolutely necessary) but there is no need to destroy entire weapon types, look at what they did to hand cannons basically because of Thorn. There was absolutely no need for that.
 
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Hmmm, realised the shortcomings of matchmaking last night. I thought I had done PoE 36 before, as I did PoE once I was at that level... Got that wrong didn't I!

Joined a proper 36 arena, wondered why I was on my own, then realised there was no matchmaking! Now I understand that there is a logic to not matchmaking for Raids, but for arenas too seems a bit daft. Was a shame really.

Also, a question - is there any need to be in a fireteam for Court of Oryx? Was happily running a few last night with random people and was getting loot etc and credit for completing the event.
 
PoE 35 was one of the most difficult encounters in the game when max level was 34, it wouldn't have worked with matchmaking back then. It is about time they added matchmaking to all the PoE arenas now though, it'd be a nice alternative to the strike playlists.
 
Well if we all thought the same way, there wouldn't be much discussion on this forum I suppose. I just can't see the problem with this, a lot of formidable guns at your disposal which handle in different ways. Each to their own though.

EDIT - By the way I'm not saying they shouldn't tweak things or nerf things occasionally (when absolutely necessary) but there is no need to destroy entire weapon types, look at what they did to hand cannons basically because of Thorn. There was absolutely no need for that.

I agree, its a pattern with Bungie, a gun/few guns are OP so they ruin the whole class, Suro was op so lets make all ARs useless, Thorn/TLW are OP so we will wreck ever HC. What is also ironic is whenever this happens were only left with less weapons, like right now the only real HC you will see is TLW/Hawkmoon like they didn't even achieve balance for HCs they just killed Thorn off and ever legendary HC. PRs are in a good place for this, you have a lot of options I see a few come up way more often but you could use really anything with decent stats and your fine, most other gun classes don't have this.
 
They really need to look at making smaller changes more often. The "balances" they make at the moment is just a shoddy merry go round.

How about change the AR and see what happens. If PR are still overused then look at implementing the nerf there. But no, once again we see Bungie jumping head first into making sweeping changes with only very limited "play testing" to back up whether they will be effective or not.

It is of course another example though of how the weapons balance between PVE and PVP need to be separated. Unless I have miss-read shotguns will become all but useless in PVE...... AGAIN!

I agree, and I know none of us are video game designers, but I never understand the rational behind these slow, big changes. They could have fixed the ADS issues with hand cannons and buffed the damage slightly on AR's, then waited to see how those changes played out.

Tweak the range on Pulse rifles, don't just take the easy option with % damage nerfs.

The shotgun changes are hilarious, not only that PvE is affected too, but that they just went HAM and nerfed a crazy amount of things. TBH, I don't think they were much of an issue after shot package was removed.

Anyway soon it will be MIDA + 1000-Yard master race :cool:

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a gun/few guns are OP so they ruin the whole class, Suro was op so lets make all ARs useless, Thorn/TLW are OP so we will wreck every HC.

Pretty much this, over a year now and the weapon balance guy can't see to get the sand from his sandbox out of his eyes...
 
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Hmmm, realised the shortcomings of matchmaking last night. I thought I had done PoE 36 before, as I did PoE once I was at that level... Got that wrong didn't I!

Joined a proper 36 arena, wondered why I was on my own, then realised there was no matchmaking! Now I understand that there is a logic to not matchmaking for Raids, but for arenas too seems a bit daft. Was a shame really.

Also, a question - is there any need to be in a fireteam for Court of Oryx? Was happily running a few last night with random people and was getting loot etc and credit for completing the event.

You can solo T1/T2 runes. You don't need to be in a fire team but it's a good way to charge runes and get more loot as you alternate between summoning cool downs. Normally I'll peek over if anyone is there or put a post up on lfg. Other people will quickly head over if they see activity.
 
I agree, and I know none of us are video game designers, but I never understand the rational behind these slow, big changes. They could have fixed the ADS issues with hand cannons and buffed the damage slightly on AR's, then waited to see how those changes played out.

Tweak the range on Pulse rifles, don't just take the easy option with % damage nerfs.

The shotgun changes are hilarious, not only that PvE is affected too, but that they just went HAM and nerfed a crazy amount of things. TBH, I don't think they were much of an issue after shot package was removed.

Anyway soon it will be MIDA + 1000-Yard master race :cool:

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Pretty much this, over a year now and the weapon balance guy can't see to get the sand from his sandbox out of his eyes...

Also there is a lack of testing, there has been enough times where perks straight out don't work, or they seems stupidly broken. I really enjoy the game but it needs more love for the crucible, or it won't be able to compete against the best games.
 
Orxy was being a right pain in the arse this week....still, got him down in the end. Venom got his harrowed helmet and the funky shader :'(

Still not a single helmet drop for me....oh well...stick me down for sunday.
 
Orxy was being a right pain in the arse this week....still, got him down in the end. Venom got his harrowed helmet and the funky shader :'(

Still not a single helmet drop for me....oh well...stick me down for sunday.

That's the only reason I didn't sign up for that raid you messaged about, I'm pretty busy this week and one thing I have learned is you just aren't guaranteed a quick run at Oryx. A weekend there a while back just before I took a break from Destiny we had largely the same raid team:

Friday - No problem, ran through the whole raid in about 2 hours. Swapped to alternates for Oryx checkpoint, after an hour couldn't get him down.

Saturday - Did raid from starting point again with alts, rushed through took about an hour. Sat at Oryx for almost 3 hours and could not drop him.

Sunday - I didn't do the Sunday run but I heard they got him down pretty fast.

With no knight I have stressed before I feel like you need luck on your side at times. With knight watcher it's execution heavy so if 1 person has a lapse of concentration it often ends in a wipe, this really becomes a problem the longer the encounter goes on with people becoming tired. You have to hand it to Bungie really, it's a great fight in hard mode.
 
Yeah, they must have been some of the unluckiest Oryx runs. Still can't believe that shade at the end :@

Very lucky to get the harrowed helmet, even if it was 310!

Should kick Venom from future raids, he clearly stole our luck. I still need boots/helm :( maybe a full raid will help.

:(

I heard you get better drops if you play for stats instead of fun :D

I'm up for a full Alt run at the weekend. Friday or Sunday
 
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