Diane Abbott suspended as Labour MP after racism letter

jpaul said:
conservative party is more subtle/insidious - 1st exhibit Suella Braverman - misdirection, no one mentioned her in this thread.?


hierarchy - could say that Jewish community had strongest lobbying capability (compared to people of colour impacted by racism ) to have raised political ire against the labour party/Corbyn;
Keir then uses these reforms to his own ends, trying to pretend that reform is a substitute for any policies - newsflash Keir has no clothes.
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Absolutely, there are always agendas being pushed behind the headlines and media soundbites like this.

To me the only way to address this is to abandon this equity concept of trying to make groups equal by implementing reverse discrimination based on who’s more oppressed.

It’sa discussion nobody will ever agree on. All it leads to is division and more arguing. Equal treatment has to be the way forward.

At this same time I don’t actually think Diane Abbot should be suspended because it does is feed into the victimhood hierarchy mindset. It deliberately reinforces the idea that Jewish people are more oppressed than African people and that questioning that is anti-Semitic!

You can waste time arguing about it either way on who’s more historically oppressed but IMO it’s a stupid question to ask and Diane deserves the backlash for raising it!
 
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silvagti said:
Absolutely, there are always agendas being pushed behind the headlines and media soundbites like this.

To me the only way to address this is to abandon this equity number of trying to make groups equal by implementing reverse discrimination based on who’s more oppressed.

It’sa discussion nobody will ever agree on. All of leads to is division and more arguing. Equal treatment has to me the way forward.

At this same time I don’t actually think Diane Abbot should be suspended because it does is feed into the victimhood hierarchy. All reinforces is the idea that Jewish people are more oppressed than African people and that questioning that is anti-Semitic!

Frankly discussing how historically oppressed certain groups are in comparison to each other is a pointless endeavour.
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Tbh though, I think this whole "unbalanced equality" discussion has made folk REALLY question their decisions and open their horizons. Hopefully it times out as being a lesson (much like we don't need constant reminders to wear seatbelts nowadays).
 
of course it's not just the Jews, redheads, travellers and Irish people that Abbot managed to get 'wrong' in her 'draft' letter.

She also managed to talk a total load of pish about 'white-seeming people' in general when she claimed that there were none of them 'manacled on the slave ships' when the exact reverse was actually the case...

There are no records of how many men, women and children were enslaved, but it is possible to calculate roughly the number of fresh captives that would have been needed to keep populations steady and replace those slaves who died, escaped, were ransomed, or converted to Islam. On this basis it is thought that around 8,500 new slaves were needed annually to replenish numbers - about 850,000 captives over the century from 1580 to 1680.

By extension, for the 250 years between 1530 and 1780, the figure could easily have been as high as 1,250,000

Slaves in Barbary fell into two broad categories. The 'public slaves' belonged to the ruling pasha, who by right of rulership could claim an eighth of all Christians captured by the corsairs, and buy all the others he wanted at reduced prices. These slaves were housed in large prisons known as baños (baths), often in wretchedly overcrowded conditions. They were mostly used to row the corsair galleys in the pursuit of loot (and more slaves) - work so strenuous that thousands died or went mad while chained to the oar.
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Labour - cancer / they apparently don't know the definition of a woman
Tories - cancer / hit the poorest the most
Lib Dems - irrelevant
Greens - they want a 6PM curfew on all men following the murder of Sarah Everard
UKIP / Reform - right wing / Euroscepticism

So who do I vote for in 2024?

In my local elections (Staffordshire), I was allowed to cast 2 votes. The options were 2 Tory candidates, 2 Labour candidates and 2 Green candidates. Where are the Lib-Dems?
 
Pawnless Endgame said:
Labour - cancer / they apparently don't know the definition of a woman
Tories - cancer / hit the poorest the most
Lib Dems - irrelevant
Greens - they want a 6PM curfew on all men following the murder of Sarah Everard
UKIP / Reform - right wing / Euroscepticism

So who do I vote for in 2024?

In my local elections (Staffordshire), I was allowed to cast 2 votes. The options were 2 Tory candidates, 2 Labour candidates and 2 Green candidates. Where are the Lib-Dems?
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Yeah it's a farce, truly.

I'll vote for somebody supporting PR/offering an end to FPTP, knowing full-well that my vote won't count, because neither the Tories nor Starmer want to get rid of FPTP. But it will be tallied somewhere, and used in some statistical analysis to show how bonkers FPTP is. "Yeah we only got 40% of the votes, but we got 99% of the seats, and that's what matters, innit!"
 
Pawnless Endgame said:
Labour - cancer / they apparently don't know the definition of a woman
Tories - cancer / hit the poorest the most
Lib Dems - irrelevant
Greens - they want a 6PM curfew on all men following the murder of Sarah Everard
UKIP / Reform - right wing / Euroscepticism

So who do I vote for in 2024?

In my local elections (Staffordshire), I was allowed to cast 2 votes. The options were 2 Tory candidates, 2 Labour candidates and 2 Green candidates. Where are the Lib-Dems?
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I really think the political system in this country isn't working any more. It's ridiculous that so many politicians are shoe-horning themselves in to two parties.
 
Pawnless Endgame said:
Labour - cancer / they apparently don't know the definition of a woman
Tories - cancer / hit the poorest the most
Lib Dems - irrelevant
Greens - they want a 6PM curfew on all men following the murder of Sarah Everard
UKIP / Reform - right wing / Euroscepticism

So who do I vote for in 2024?

In my local elections (Staffordshire), I was allowed to cast 2 votes. The options were 2 Tory candidates, 2 Labour candidates and 2 Green candidates. Where are the Lib-Dems?
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Reform
All the others have a history of not performing!
 
Devilman said:
At no point have I asserted that we should let the world go to hell "just because our country did it".

Nor did I remotely insinuate that slavery was acceptable or that it should be allowed to be done in reverse now.

What i DID say, was that developed western nations should be mindful / considerate in their responses.

To use a banking analogy, The west built up a huge debt (CO2 emissions) to develop to where we are today and we're now demanding that other developing nations be refused that same opportunity.

Furthermore - If we are really seriously about trying to reduce CO2 emissions and slow / reverse climate change, "The West" with our greater advancement and development should be making much more of an effort to help those developing nations choose the "more expensive, but cleaner" option. Rather like a well-established and financially secure parent helping their son/daughter with a deposit for a mortgage.


However I fear we are getting far off-topic to the thread and do not wish to derail it any further. Apologies to OP / Mods for minor diversion. :)
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This. The west created the climate catastrophe and it is the responsibility of the west to fix it. However, capitalism only cares about today's profit and completely ignore the future costs to civilisation.


It os also completely wrong to blame developing and 3rd world countries for their current environmental impact. Their CO2 pet a capita based on living means is a tiny, tiny fraction of western averages. The average person in china or india has far lower impact than the average westerner. Most of china's emissions are directly in manufacturing for the west, their co2 output mostly belongs to Europe and USA.

More over, it is wrong to think they aren't taking action. China is investing far more heavily in green energy than the west. They are leading the world with solar, hydro and wind installation
 
thenewoc said:
Reform
All the others have a history of not performing!
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no thanks... I would vote the current lot in before I would vote reform.... and not just because of brexit stance. even if they were neutral on that I would not go near them.

I do agree with pawnless endgame it is hard to know who to vote for. what we really need is a real life monty Brewster to shake things up
 
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Well the idea in the locals is to vote in the candidate that does / promises to do the best in their local community IIRC. Take that as you will though.
 
Uther said:
Well the idea in the locals is to vote in the candidate that does / promises to do the best in their local community IIRC. Take that as you will though.
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I agree and I surprised myself with who I voted for.... but I had a choice of 3. blue, red and independant.

the independant had no online profile.and I had no flier's. Indo not know what he stands for , all I could find out was he had a 50% attendance at meetings.
that said at least Google picked him up. when I googled the labour candidate I could not even find her. I am guessing she must be new but with no flier and less of an online profile I have no idea who she is or if she will do anything for her local community.
the Tory candidate however sent a flier...... (but I could live without that if she wanted to save money). but she has a well thought out web page and online profile and is actually engaged with her community.

she is also new to post but is the only one who was worthy of voting for......... so I had 2 choices..

soil my vote (or not vote at all so that is 3 choices I guess)

or vote conservative.

not going near them in the general however.
 
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The only one that has made any effort whatsoever here is the Lib Dem, who has been knocking on doors. The others are nowhere to be seen.
 
I've decided to abstain this time round. Even the conservatives seemed to be paralyzed to govern properly anymore. I know for a fact that Labour will be the same or worse. So whats the point?

To be fair through, the removal of Diane Abbott as removed a major reason for me not to touch Labour and if they can remove Angela Rayner too then they actually might start to look electable.
 
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Pawnless Endgame said:
Labour - cancer / they apparently don't know the definition of a woman


So who do I vote for in 2024?
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The only thing I would say to that is why is Labours position on something that only 0.2% of the country are, stop you from voting for them?

More people died of COVID-19 than identify as trans men or women.

It seems to me that far more people are concerned/worried about 'the trans issue' than the actual amount of people that identify as trans.
 
bigmike20vt said:
no thanks... I would vote the current lot in before I would vote reform.... and not just because of brexit stance. even if they were neutral on that I would not go near them.

I do agree with pawnless endgame it is hard to know who to vote for. what we really need is a real life monty Brewster to shake things up
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If you keep voting for Tory or Labour you'll just get more of what we've already had. Reform are the only party that are united around improving the UK and with values similar to what Tories used to stand for. Better tax efficiency of a small state, lower taxation, less state interference and pro business growth to name a few. They're also the only ones without a poor track record so shouldn't be judged until they've had the opportunity to show what they can do.
 
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thenewoc said:
If you keep voting for Tory or Labour you'll just get more of what we've already had. Reform are the only party that are united around improving the UK and with values similar to what Tories used to stand for. Better tax efficiency of a small state, lower taxation, less state interference and pro business growth to name a few. There also the only ones without a poor track record so shouldn't be judged until they've had the opportunity to show what they can do.
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LOL!

Reform sound completely nuts:

FuAib5KWwAAo_z1



"Staffed by Believers"

And what are they going to do, use the Navy to drop migrants off at France? That'll go down well
 
VincentHanna said:
LOL!

Reform sound completely nuts:

FuAib5KWwAAo_z1



"Staffed by Believers"

And what are they going to do, use the Navy to drop migrants off at France? That'll go down well
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Carry out the legislation that government brings about rather than the current civil service standing in the way.

It's about things that put the UK first unless you want to pay higher and higher taxes to accommodate unlimited numbers of freeloaders.

The more accurate set of manifesto goals can actually be found here which includes reducing NHS waiting lists.

www.reformparty.uk

Policies Reform UK

www.reformparty.uk www.reformparty.uk
 
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