DirectX 12

[jh30uk]

I think £200 is cheap for a high end CPU today.

I remember paying £400+ for a higher end (not top) AMD CPU's a good few years back and £400 then is more than £400 now due to wages etc.

If you have a lesser GPU then your not going to get magic gains either as it about lessening lower end CPU bottlenecks and that happens more when mismatched with a high end GPU.

I use this as a pure example : 2GHz Celeron + Titan Black = not too clever IMO.

4770k + Titan Black = better match.

The days of simply adding a new GPU to existing hardware to get a night and day new experience are over.

The last game that was nearly all about the GPU that I know of was F.E.A.R.

Some games are more CPU bound and some more GPU bound and its a balance, a low end CPU cannot feed a high end GPU and mantle can help with that but I and I assume others who buy high end GPU's will have a decent CPU+clock.

I know lower RES is about CPU and high RES is about GPU but who is going to play at 1024x768 or abouts today?

The GPU part is what it going to let you game at highest setting possible so buy what you can afford.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think £200 is cheap for a high end CPU today.

I remember paying £400+ for a higher end (not top) AMD CPU's a good few years back and £400 then is more than £400 now due to wages etc.

If you have a lesser GPU then your not going to get magic gains either as it about lessening lower end CPU bottlenecks and that happens more when mismatched with a high end GPU.

I use this as a pure example : 2GHz Celeron + Titan Black = not too clever IMO.

4770k + Titan Black = better match.

The days of simply adding a new GPU to existing hardware to get a night and day new experience are over.

The last game that was nearly all about the GPU that I know of was F.E.A.R.

Some games are more CPU bound and some more GPU bound and its a balance, a low end CPU cannot feed a high end GPU and mantle can help with that but I and I assume others who buy high end GPU's will have a decent CPU+clock.

I know lower RES is about CPU and high RES is about GPU but who is going to play at 1024x768 or abouts today?

The GPU part is what it going to let you game at highest setting possible so buy what you can afford.

Which again is not really relevant. The TH benches showed improvements with two lower end GPUs,and other websites show improvements with higher end GPUs too. They are contradicting what you are saying. DX12 is looking to extend this to mobile too.

What you don't get that even my Core i5 will look old hat next year,and be superseded by much faster CPUs.

Also,by then a midrange GPU will have the performance of a much higher end GPU. Don't believe me?? A GTX660/HD7870 is almost as fast as a GTX580 in many games like Crysis3. Those are sub £140 GPUs matching a £400 GPU of the previous generation.

By next year there will much faster graphics cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

That means someone running Mantle/DX12/whatever efficiency orientated API,can safely get that card without much CPU bottlenecking.

£200 for a CPU is not what most gamers will be spending for a CPU anyway. Most people are not changing out there CPUs every year. Most people don't even overclock. Computer forum posters and hardware enthusiasts are a fraction of all gamers,but among the most vocal,and they spend disproportionately more.

The thing is MS obviously is not listening to hardware enthusiasts,they are looking at the much bigger picture.

More efficient use of the CPU means,people can get away with using them longer,and simply upgrading the graphics card.

Its cheaper and easier than rebuilding your whole computer.

This is the whole point of these APIs,for the masses,not for the few percent who are hardware enthusiasts.

Its about making PC gaming even more accessible,and MS wants this. Companies like Valve with SteamOS for example are trying to fight the gaming hegemony MS enjoys ATM.

Gaming is one of the big reasons why people stick with Windows,outside legacy software support. Android for example is fighting from the low end too.

This is a response to this,especially in light of Windows starting to lose marketshare to other OSes. Mantle showed how much improvement you could get from an immature API.

MS wants to make Windows a more attractive and efficient gaming platform.

You know what?? About bloody time.

 

[drunkenmaster]

For the record, Johan is making tweets along the lines of actually I'll requote what someone posted elsewhere.

Johan Andersson ‏@repi 7 h
Direct3D 12 blog with some more details: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx … You may recognize the design

petr_tomicek ‏@petr_tomicek 5 h
@repi Why does it feel like I am reading Mantle Programming Guide again?

12:52 - 20 de mar. de 2014 · Detalles
Johan Andersson ‏@repi 2 h
@petr_tomicek

So a couple people seem to think it's rather close to Mantle.

I'm quite happy for DX to take over the mantle on windows because, meh, it nicely gets around Nvidia being unwilling to get on board. I just want Mantle to stick around and move to non Windows platforms. We absolutely need an API to stick around, force MS to take PC seriously and not let Windows stagnate as it has done for so long, and also allow a free choice of OS. I'm not a massive fan of Linux myself, tried it a couple times, maybe SteamOS in a couple years or Chrome/Android will eventually allow a more consumer friendly OS. The main thing is again having alternative platforms not massively crippled to prevent Windows not trying to evolve DX at all.

 

[jh30uk]

@ CAT-THE-FIFTH, You are saying same thing over and over and asking same DX12 Q's over and over.

I will not need a new CPU every year to game at high end, nor will a 2600k or 3770k owner, none of these CPU's are expensive today, and all can be had 2nd hand.

mantle (this is not a mantle thread BTW) is not going to help me much if any with my CPU.

If you say you will never buy a high end CPU or GPU then nothing is going to let you game to the same level as others with a high end GPU be it a mid range CPU+mantle+mid range GPU or high end CPU+mid range GPU.

 

[tommybhoy]

For the record, Johan is making tweets along the lines of actually I'll requote what someone posted elsewhere.



So a couple people seem to think it's rather close to Mantle.

I'm quite happy for DX to take over the mantle on windows because, meh, it nicely gets around Nvidia being unwilling to get on board. I just want Mantle to stick around and move to non Windows platforms. We absolutely need an API to stick around, force MS to take PC seriously and not let Windows stagnate as it has done for so long, and also allow a free choice of OS. I'm not a massive fan of Linux myself, tried it a couple times, maybe SteamOS in a couple years or Chrome/Android will eventually allow a more consumer friendly OS. The main thing is again having alternative platforms not massively crippled to prevent Windows not trying to evolve DX at all.

According to additional press releases rolled out today, currently all DX12 systems at the Game Developer's Conference are running with TITAN Black cards, pointing towards a close relationship between Microsoft and NVIDIA. However, from what we hear, AMD has also been front and center during the DirectX 12's evolution, providing key input and several integral features from Mantle will be integrated directly into Microsoft's new API. It should be noted however that DX12 and by extension Direct3D 12 is NOT Mantle. Rather, while their goals are the same, the way each interface managed by developers is quite different. We'll have a more thorough analysis at a later date.

The Nvidia folks need not worry, AMD users are paving the way for future gaming on PC with Mantle DX.

 

[shankly1985]

The Nvidia folks need not worry, AMD users are paving the way for future gaming on PC with Mantle DX.

You have a link mate?

Edit
Ok found it

 

[LtMatt]

So we all remember the SemiAccurate article yes?

Well im starting to think that its actually true, behind closed doors. Dx12 is basically Mantle adoption, but with multi vendor support. Yet no one is officially saying this, why? I've tried to ask the issue to Johan Anderson, Robert Hallock from AMD and neither has confirmed it and the latter somewhat denied it. But then you see things like this and it makes you wonder. Sugarhell prompted me to ask after he saw this tweet.

 

[triss]

Well looks like thracks says dx12 is MS's own creation so not mantle to me,, but who knows

 

[jh30uk]

DX12 is not mantle, never has been and never will be.

DX12 will have been on the slow back burner same as Windows due to a nutter running MS while Billy Boy was of saving the 3rd world, thankfully he is now gone.

Can tell yourself it is if it makes you feel better.

 

[LtMatt]

DX12 is not mantle, never has been and never will be.

DX12 will have been on the slow back burner same as Windows due to a nutter running MS while Billy Boy was of saving the 3rd world, thankfully he is now gone.

Can tell yourself it is if it makes you feel better.

You really think that? I'm not so sure. If DX12 had been in production for so long it would not be nearly two years away.

 

[ICDP]

So the general consensus is that DX12 is indeed incormporating mantle. So Charlie was 100% accurate.

 

[LtMatt]

So the general consensus is that DX12 is indeed incormporating mantle. So Charlie was 100% accurate.

That's what Johan appears to be hinting at. He certainly knows a lot more than anyone here.

 

[Stanners]

And so does the AMD guy who says it is Microsoft's own creation

 

[jh30uk]

Wishful thinking, Charlie talks a lot of crap and makes that much up that its only chance he get the odd thing right the same as if I say it will rain next Wednesday.

If you read all the slides/reviews today you would see DX12 has nothing to do with mantle and Nvidia would not be involved if it did.

 

[ICDP]

I honestly don't give a crap if it is Mantle or not. I just want MS to actually make an advance for once.

Mantle is the kick in the arse MS needed IMHO. Well done AMD.

 

[triss]

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=26038835#post26038835

Forzra devs it seems have had it at least 4 months ,thracks says dx12 isnt mantle not sure how much more proof you need

 

[jh30uk]

That is all it was, MS are not as safe as they used to be, Ballmer ruined them.

Now since AND failed to deliver they can get their finger out and get DX12 sorted but IMO Windows needs sorted 1st.

Frosty must be grinning widely today and I will go on record and say in 2 years from now you will not hear of mantle IMO.

I for one will be glad to not see the slides and tweets spammed in non mantle threads.

 

[Parabellum]

NVIDIA: DirectX 12 Is Huge Improvement for Gaming

Just came across this:http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/nvidia_directx_12_is_huge_improvement_for_gaming.html

NVIDIA will match Microsoft OS support for DX12. Over 70% of gaming PCs are now DX11 based. NVIDIA will support the DX12 API on all the DX11-class GPUs it has shipped; these belong to the Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell architectural families.

NVIDIA on the desktop front who announced that DirectX 12 API would be supported by not just their Maxwell and Kepler GPUs but also by their Fermi core architecture. Fermi was launched back in 2010 and NVIDIA supporting the GPU architecture to this date is great news for those users who still have Fermi GPUs running in their rigs. Following is NVIDIA’s note on the DirectX 12 API:

Speaking to a crowd of about 500 developers and press, Anuj Gosalia, development manager of DirectX at Microsoft, described DX12 as the joint effort of hardware vendors, game developers and his team. Our work with Microsoft on DirectX 12 began more than four years ago with discussions about reducing resource overhead. For the past year, NVIDIA has been working closely with the DirectX team to deliver a working design and implementation of DX12 at GDC. Read more:

 

[jh30uk]

^^ From above link DirectX 12 was designed from scratch to provide the infrastructure for these advanced applications.

DirectX 12 will mirror many of the improvements AMD implemented in its own Mantle API. The big news today was that DX12 will support more than just the PC and will work on existing hardware

IMO been in works a lot longer than you think, and due to crap going on at MS got bogged down same as Windows.

I do not think MS worked as close with AMD this time as AMD thought mantle was going to be the DX killer so why would MS bother.

BTW that Forza was running on a Titan Black in DX12.

 

[ICDP]

I do not think MS worked as close with AMD this time as AMD thought mantle was going to be the DX killer so why would MS bother.

Yeah, I mean why would AMD work with MS to build an API that is compatible with the GCN hardware in the XB1. All the proof we need is right there in that Nvidia PR slide. Do you honestly think an Nvidia slide would say, "Designed in Close Collaboration Between AMD, MS and Nvdia"?

BTW that Forza was running on a Titan Black in DX12.

And only getting 60 FPS, not impressed
I'm only kidding. I would Welcome Forza for PC, I bet it would work great on the AMD GPUs when/if it is released. The fact it was demonstrated on Nvidia HW is neither here nor there.

You are falling into the trap of assuming AMD (and by extrension AMD users) just lost the API race. AMD are also working with MS on DX12 and Any current gen AMD GPU/APU hardware will also be able to utilise DX12. In future we could have a choice to use Mantle or DX, AMD users are not suddenly left in the cold if Mantle fails.