Distasteful vegan TV ad

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jigger said:
Some need to eat meat though.
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You've missed my point? Of course some animals need to eat meat, but this is a non issue for vegans as these animals have no other choice, they do it for their survival.

jigger said:
Certain medical conditions are diet critical.
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I'm getting confused are you still referring to animals or now on to people? I'm not aware of any specific medical conditions that makes eating meat a requirement. I agree that it can be an easy source of some nutrients that might help some conditions like anemia but nothing we cannot get from a well balance plant based diet. B12 is the possible exception but so many foods are B12 fortified it should be fine. If all else fails then supplements are also available.

jigger said:
What if I keep predatory pets?
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Purchasing a pet that eats other animals is not considered vegan.
 
Crizzy said:
You've missed my point? Of course some animals need to eat meat, but this is a non issue for vegans as these animals have no other choice, they do it for their survival.



I'm getting confused are you still referring to animals or now on to people? I'm not aware of any specific medical conditions that makes eating meat a requirement. I agree that it can be an easy source of some nutrients that might help some conditions like anemia but nothing we cannot get from a well balance plant based diet. B12 is the possible exception but so many foods are B12 fortified it should be fine. If all else fails then supplements are also available.


Purchasing a pet that eats other animals is not considered vegan.
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People. Some forms of arthritis and autoimmune disorders.

So dogs and cats are out, but animals eating other animals is OK in the wild. I suppose any form of domestication or animal husbandry is cruel.
 
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visibleman said:
That's great but the planet won't become vegan regardless of accessibility as you will always have those, and it's a lot, on one end of the spectrum who are hardcore animal consumers and no amount of radical vegan shock tactics will change their minds other than for some catastrophic event to take place.
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I agree, but an appeal to futility isn't an excuse for me not to go vegan.
 
jigger said:
People. Some forms of arthritis and autoimmune disorders.
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Which though? And who is advocating you have to eat meat as a way to manage these conditions?

The American Dietetic Association who did a study into the effects of a plant based diet actually state the opposite, that a well planned vegan diet is not only healthy and nutritionally adequate, but also provides health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.
 
gingergundog said:
I have no idea whether they are aware hence me saying I'm not sure. How do they feel when out in the fields, are they enjoying life?
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I have a field behind the house that has sheep from early spring with lambs and their mothers. It's nice seeing them play, and funny watching their interactions. Most have pairs of lambs, and they race back to their mother for food. Sometimes the mother can't be bothered and either turns round or makes it clear she isn't interested.

I made friends with an old one last year who would come to the fence for bits of carrot and give me kisses through the fence. She was still very timid, sadly she didn't come back this year.

Sadly a fair few do die each year. It was sad the other year as I noticed a mother and a lamb near a hedge. She was there for two days laid there, occasionally turning round. Then the farmer came and she called in a way I hadn't heard any of them call before. The farmer walked over and there was a dead lamb I couldn't see for the grass. He picked it up by a rear leg and walked off carrying it dangling, with the mother jogging along trying to keep up with them.

This year there have been a few dead adults from being stuck on their backs, another lamb was taken off for fly strike, looked awful when I noticed and reported it to the landowner. And one I noticed on it's own by the hedge, barely alive, couldn't even lift it's head when I went up to it. Called the land owner who said they'd phone the farmer but probably not much they could do, was dead by the morning.

Edit: As for cows, I've seen many videos of them playing. I remember once, around 10 years ago, walking past a dairy herd. One came over, I pulled up some long grass to feed her, but she ignored it and just wanted to lick my face. Always stuck with me and often wondered what happened to her.
 
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Crizzy said:
Which though? And who is advocating you have to eat meat as a way to manage these conditions?

The American Dietetic Association who did a study into the effects of a plant based diet actually state the opposite, that a well planned vegan diet is not only healthy and nutritionally adequate, but also provides health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.
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I forget the types. I worked with a chap many years ago and so many foods would cause him serious medical complications.
 
visibleman said:
Applewood is ok if your bury it in something, otherwise all vegan cheeses are horrendous on their own and nothing remotely like dairy cheese.

It's the same for milk alternatives, especially in tea where none gives you a cup that remotely looks nor tastes the same (as a dairy milk tea) and you end up having to massively compromise - i can only assume manufacturers can't replicate the fats of dairy.
It's why i now mostly drink tea/coffee black with the exception of cappuccinos which will be oat or soya.
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I drink coffee with unsweetened oat milk and Tesco soya 50 p a carton in my flasks of tea , quite enjoy the soya in tea but it's rank in coffee
 
jigger said:
I forget the types. I worked with a chap many years ago and so many foods would cause him serious medical complications.
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Sorry but this is purely anecdotal and a chap you worked with years ago isn't an argument that certain medical conditions require you to eat meat.
 
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Crizzy said:
Sorry but this is purely andectoal and a chap you worked with years ago isn't an argument that certain medical conditions require you to eat meat.
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No it’s not. I remember looking into his condition and it’s real.

It was an autoimmune disease. If I recall the name I’ll quote you but it’s slipped my mind right now.
 
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jigger said:
No it’s not. I remember looking into his condition and it’s real.
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Then please enlighten me!

That said a vegans position is that if it's a survival situation then it can be justified. But I highly doubt this is the case here.
 
Crizzy said:
I agree, but an appeal to futility isn't an excuse for me not to go vegan.
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You initially were saying vegans as a whole...

Crizzy said:
But everyone becoming vegan overnight leading to a surplus of animals would never happen.
Vegans acknowledge the change has to be gradual which will naturally reduce the amount of animals bred into existence over time.
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...which is what i was replying to, ie - the gradual change to veganism which won't happen globally, rather than to individuals.

Individually, people can do what they want :)
 
I just don't understand why some vegans have to undertake a plight to get everyone to see the world as they see it. I have to put the emphasis on some. My brother is plant-based and other than being a right nuisance when he comes over for food, you'd never know because he never mentions it.

There is just a subset of vegans (plant-based people don't seem to have the same issue) who want to scream, shout and get all emotional. The sooner they stop acting as if they're some moral arbiter the better.
 
jigger said:
No it’s not. I remember looking into his condition and it’s real.

It was an autoimmune disease. If I recall the name I’ll quote you but it’s slipped my mind right now.
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Meat helps with many autoimmune diseases, here's a link :)

www.doctorkiltz.com

Carnivore Diet for Autoimmune Issues? How it Works

The carnivore diet is commonly used to resolve numerous autoimmune disorders by eliminating autoimmune-stimulating plant foods
www.doctorkiltz.com www.doctorkiltz.com
 
Junglist said:
My brother is plant-based and other than being a right nuisance when he comes over for food, you'd never know because he never mentions it.
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You're lucky, mine wasn't overly preachy but would happily announce he was plant-based (still owned/wore/used animal products) when he had chance and would rightly get ridiculed for it (especially down the pub) :cry:. After putting on 2-3 stone, and realising he liked the occasional steak, moved to a reduced meat diet which is fair.

Although it does bring up the question for those that say they are/identify as vegan - how many are technically plant-based rather than (true) vegans?
I imagine a few here aren't true vegans...
 
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visibleman said:
You're lucky, mine wasn't overly preachy but would happily announce he was plant-based when he had chance and would rightly get ridiculed for it (especially down the pub) :cry:. After putting on 2-3 stone, and realising he liked the occasional steak, moved to a reduced meat diet which is fair.
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He's not yet but give him time and he may change! The only time it bothers me is when we want to order a take away. He's my younger brother so i'll pay for him but last time I had to pay £20 for a vegan pizza and it looked awful. I'm still angry about it today! :cry:
 
Diddums said:
Meat helps with many autoimmune diseases, here's a link :)

www.doctorkiltz.com

Carnivore Diet for Autoimmune Issues? How it Works

The carnivore diet is commonly used to resolve numerous autoimmune disorders by eliminating autoimmune-stimulating plant foods
www.doctorkiltz.com www.doctorkiltz.com
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That's an interesting read, and i'm not dismissing it, but until I see more compelling resources I will continue to believe that you can still manage medical conditions appropriately without having to resort to a carnivore diet. Harvard University also said that this study was based on self reported data, rather than scientific evidence and the long term effects of the diet are not yet known.

Again, I caveat this with: If its for your survival then resorting to meat can be justified.
 
Junglist said:
I just don't understand why some vegans have to undertake a plight to get everyone to see the world as they see it. I have to put the emphasis on some. My brother is plant-based and other than being a right nuisance when he comes over for food, you'd never know because he never mentions it.

There is just a subset of vegans (plant-based people don't seem to have the same issue) who want to scream, shout and get all emotional. The sooner they stop acting as if they're some moral arbiter the better.
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Personally, I hate admitting I'm vegan in most social situations, in my experience I often find myself being belittled and targeted by meat eaters and forced to try and defend my choice to be so. So it does go both ways.
 
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