Distasteful vegan TV ad

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Johno please? said:
I eat guacamole on the occasion and yes, avocados are bad for the environment.

Of course if you're an environmentalist, you should be vegan https://www.alumni.ox.ac.uk/article/less-meat-better-for-environment.
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My point about you eating avocados wasn't to do with environmentalism in itself or how much carbon it produces to ship it over here. My argument is on a couple of points:

As a preface - yourself and another poster in here were quick to talk about the deforestation and wildlife culling that takes place to grow soya and that the vast majority of this soya is used for animal feeds to then feed humans.

Avocados are not used in animals feeds. The vast majority is used for human consumption yet they destroy vast habitats and kill thousands of animals...

https://www.earthsight.org.uk/news/idm/global-appetite-avocados-drives-deforestation-mexico

https://thedailycougar.com/2021/07/26/veganism-isnt-necessarily-guilty-free/

So happy to eat avocados causing mass deforestation and animal deaths whilst criticising meat eaters regarding soya?

Furthermore, avocado production is reliant on bees and a lot of those bees are honeybees as you.describe below...

Johno please? said:
"The crisis in global pollinator decline has been associated with one species above all, the western honeybee. Honeybees are artificially-bred agricultural animals similar to livestock such as pigs and cows. But this livestock can roam beyond any enclosures to disrupt local ecosystems through competition and disease.

Keeping honeybees is an extractive activity. It removes pollen and nectar from the environment, which are natural resources needed by many wild species of bee and other pollinators.

Saving the honeybee does not help wildlife. Western honeybees are a commercially managed species that can actually have negative effects on their immediate environment through the massive numbers in which they are introduced.”
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So you're happy to eat avocados (and it's derivatives) but want to criticise people regarding honey?

I'm struggling not to find the hypocrisy in these points...


To the last point:

Johno please? said:
and whats my experience in pig farming? very little obviously, but if you've been to one pig factory farm then you've seen them all, I also don't need to physically be in a factory farm to see what occurs there, that's why we have photographic evidence.
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I didn't ask about pig farming. I asked what experience you had of Agriculture. Agriculture extends way beyond pig farming... Normally when someone tries to narrow the focus of a question it's because they will struggle to answer the actual question so redirect it to a specific case.

So, essentially, no experience is your answer?
 
Richie said:
My point about you eating avocados wasn't to do with environmentalism in itself or how much carbon it produces to ship it over here. My argument is on a couple of points:

As a preface - yourself and another poster in here were quick to talk about the deforestation and wildlife culling that takes place to grow soya and that the vast majority of this soya is used for animal feeds to then feed humans.

Avocados are not used in animals feeds. The vast majority is used for human consumption yet they destroy vast habitats and kill thousands of animals...

https://www.earthsight.org.uk/news/idm/global-appetite-avocados-drives-deforestation-mexico

https://thedailycougar.com/2021/07/26/veganism-isnt-necessarily-guilty-free/

So happy to eat avocados causing mass deforestation and animal deaths whilst criticising meat eaters regarding soya?

Furthermore, avocado production is reliant on bees and a lot of those bees are honeybees as you.describe below...



So you're happy to eat avocados (and it's derivatives) but want to criticise people regarding honey?

I'm struggling not to find the hypocrisy in these points...


To the last point:



I didn't ask about pig farming. I asked what experience you had of Agriculture. Agriculture extends way beyond pig farming... Normally when someone tries to narrow the focus of a question it's because they will struggle to answer the actual question so redirect it to a specific case.

So, essentially, no experience is your answer?
Click to expand...

If you're talking environmentalism a diet that's local and minimally destructive is probably best. Ie meat if you live in the more northern areas where grass only grows. But if you're in the UK you have access to cereals. Etc.

Growing food that can be eaten by people but is fed to animals but for them to be eaten by people is not great use of energy/water etc.

Especially beef/pork.
 
413x said:
If you're talking environmentalism a diet that's local and minimally destructive is probably best. Ie meat if you live in the more northern areas where grass only grows. But if you're in the UK you have access to cereals. Etc.

Growing food that can be eaten by people but is fed to animals but for them to be eaten by people is not great use of energy/water etc.

Especially beef/pork.
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I don't necessarily disagree, in theory, however it's quite clear my post is calling out hypocrisy.
 
413x said:
If you're talking environmentalism a diet that's local and minimally destructive is probably best. Ie meat if you live in the more northern areas where grass only grows. But if you're in the UK you have access to cereals. Etc.

Growing food that can be eaten by people but is fed to animals but for them to be eaten by people is not great use of energy/water etc.

Especially beef/pork.
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Water isn’t/shouldn’t be that big of a deal but industrial crop farming of land isn’t a clean business. It requires intensive working of soil and heavy chemical use.

Ricky Gervais. Vegan

Ellen DeGeneres. Not technically vegan any longer, but was for a good ten years. Mostly Vegan. This is becoming a little uncanny now.
 
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Richie said:
My point about you eating avocados wasn't to do with environmentalism in itself or how much carbon it produces to ship it over here. My argument is on a couple of points:

As a preface - yourself and another poster in here were quick to talk about the deforestation and wildlife culling that takes place to grow soya and that the vast majority of this soya is used for animal feeds to then feed humans.

Avocados are not used in animals feeds. The vast majority is used for human consumption yet they destroy vast habitats and kill thousands of animals...

https://www.earthsight.org.uk/news/idm/global-appetite-avocados-drives-deforestation-mexico

https://thedailycougar.com/2021/07/26/veganism-isnt-necessarily-guilty-free/

So happy to eat avocados causing mass deforestation and animal deaths whilst criticising meat eaters regarding soya?

Furthermore, avocado production is reliant on bees and a lot of those bees are honeybees as you.describe below...



So you're happy to eat avocados (and it's derivatives) but want to criticise people regarding honey?

I'm struggling not to find the hypocrisy in these points...


To the last point:



I didn't ask about pig farming. I asked what experience you had of Agriculture. Agriculture extends way beyond pig farming... Normally when someone tries to narrow the focus of a question it's because they will struggle to answer the actual question so redirect it to a specific case.

So, essentially, no experience is your answer?
Click to expand...

No im not happy about it, I dont think eating guacamole from time to time is hypocrisy seeing as its a non vegan world and buying any food is going to cause some indirect harm, im saying lets stop breeding billions of animals in terrible conditions and slicing their throat, then we can focus on better crop farming, like vertical farming for eg.

What has my experience in agriculture got to do with animals suffering in factory farms and slaughterhouses, are you denying these basic facts?
 
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Begbie said:
Surely if your an environmentalist you should be eating British grown produce?

Not flying, not driving, using and owning British only products etc are all far better for the environment than being a vegan is.
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Im not an environmentalist, I fly once in a blue moon.

The emissions from flying pale in comparison to animal agriculture.

Cars are pretty essential no? Bacon isn't.

I wouldnt expect the masai tribe to be vegan for example, they currently probably have no choice but to use animals.
 
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Johno please? said:
Im not an environmentalist, I fly once in a blue moon.

The emissions from flying pale in comparison to animal agriculture.

Cars are pretty essential no? Bacon isn't.
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Bacon is essential. Although not as essential as pork scratchings. They are Tier 1.

Life wouldn't be worth living in a world without proper butchers pork scratchings.
 
Johno please? said:
No im not happy about it, I dont think eating guacamole from time to time is hypocrisy seeing as its a non vegan world and buying any food is going to cause some indirect harm, im saying lets stop breeding billions of animals in terrible conditions and slicing their throat, then we can focus on better crop farming, like vertical farming for eg.

What has my experience in agriculture got to do with animals suffering in factory farms and slaughterhouses, are you denying these basic facts?
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You haven’t thought problems through. Doing away with animal food stuffs to then try and work through the problems with vegan farming, that aren’t sustainable in first place isn’t going to work as even a temporary measure.
 
Richie said:
My point about you eating avocados wasn't to do with environmentalism in itself or how much carbon it produces to ship it over here. My argument is on a couple of points:

As a preface - yourself and another poster in here were quick to talk about the deforestation and wildlife culling that takes place to grow soya and that the vast majority of this soya is used for animal feeds to then feed humans.

Avocados are not used in animals feeds. The vast majority is used for human consumption yet they destroy vast habitats and kill thousands of animals...
Click to expand...

Crizzy said:
But the ever growing demand for soy surpasses the quantity needed for direct human consumption options, such as avacados, which is leading to significant deforestation in the Amazon to accommodate soy plantations.

If it was just acres and acres of new avocado farms then yes, but it's not like these avocado plantations wouldn't be used for something else (probably soy!) if there wasn't demand for them.
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I don't even eat the bleeding things.
 
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Johno please? said:
No im not happy about it, I dont think eating guacamole from time to time is hypocrisy seeing as its a non vegan world and buying any food is going to cause some indirect harm,
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Well it is hypocrisy but you rationalise it away if it salves your conscience.

Johno please? said:
im saying lets stop breeding billions of animals in terrible conditions and slicing their throat, then we can focus on better crop farming, like vertical farming for eg.
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But many people want to eat meat. Rather than better crop farming, why can't they focus on proper lab grown meat which has the exact flavour and texture of real meat? Why do we have to focus on better crop production?


Johno please? said:
What has my experience in agriculture got to do with animals suffering in factory farms and slaughterhouses, are you denying these basic facts?
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It has a lot to do with it given you are a vegan activist. Any person with a strong view on something to the point they take part in "street activism" should at least go and practically experience what they are fighting for and not to just take anecdotal evidence as a representation of the entire industry you are against... It would, at the very least, allow you.to argue in a well rounded way.

As for the "denying basic facts" - already asked and answered. If you were as interested to read what other people wrote as you are to post your own views, you'd have seen that but it seems more important to you that you get to speak than you are to listen.
 
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