Distasteful vegan TV ad

[Richie]

I don't even eat the bleeding things.

Then don't be concerned about it?

Requoting your post doesn't negate what I posted as being wrong. Had you not chopped off the rest of my post it would have made more sense... I even prefaced it addressing the Soya argument, yet you brought it up again?.. I'm talking about a Vegan poster food and the massive deforestation and animal culling involved in it's production. The whataboutism with soya doesn't negate that fact.

My point about you eating avocados wasn't to do with environmentalism in itself or how much carbon it produces to ship it over here. My argument is on a couple of points:

As a preface - yourself and another poster in here were quick to talk about the deforestation and wildlife culling that takes place to grow soya and that the vast majority of this soya is used for animal feeds to then feed humans.

Avocados are not used in animals feeds. The vast majority is used for human consumption yet they destroy vast habitats and kill thousands of animals...

https://www.earthsight.org.uk/news/idm/global-appetite-avocados-drives-deforestation-mexico

https://thedailycougar.com/2021/07/26/veganism-isnt-necessarily-guilty-free/

So happy to eat avocados causing mass deforestation and animal deaths whilst criticising meat eaters regarding soya?

Furthermore, avocado production is reliant on bees and a lot of those bees are honeybees as you.describe below...



So you're happy to eat avocados (and it's derivatives) but want to criticise people regarding honey?

I'm struggling not to find the hypocrisy in these points.

 

[jigger]

I am going to be contraversial.... more so even than championing meat to a vegan.... but for me Sainsbury's Tommy K (not the value junk) is my favourite of the red stuff..... but I generally prefer brown.

Interesting, never had that brand but will give it a go.

 

[Johno please?]

Well it is hypocrisy but you rationalise it away if it salves your conscience.



But many people want to eat meat. Rather than better crop farming, why can't they focus on proper lab grown meat which has the exact flavour and texture of real meat? Why do we have to focus on better crop production?




It has a lot to do with it given you are a vegan activist. Any person with a strong view on something to the point they take part in "street activism" should at least go and practically experience what they are fighting for and not to just take anecdotal evidence as a representation of the entire industry you are against... It would, at the very least, allow you.to argue in a well rounded way.

As for the "denying basic facts" - already asked and answered. If you were as interested to read what other people wrote as you are to post your own views, you'd have seen that but it seems more important to you that you get to speak than you are to listen.

I also don't expect people to stop driving just because animals and humans die on the roads.

I support cultured meat as long as threes no animal exploitation involved.

Ive been to a pig factory farm, how many do I need to visit before you realize they're all going to be very similar? The ex farm vet that gave a speech there said it was a typical pig farm and ive no reason to doubt her.

A Red Tractor Assured nightmare!

The suffering was heartbreaking at Bickmarsh Hall farm

www.animaljusticeproject.com

Theres also this site where you can view all the horrible procedures that are done to animals, they even called it "mutilations"

The Mutilations (Permitted Procedures) (England) Regulations 2007

Section 5 (1) and (2) of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (c.45) makes it an offence to carry out, or to cause or, in specified circumstances, permit another person to carry out, a prohibited procedure on a protected animal. A prohibited procedure is one which involves interference with the sensitive...

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[Richie]

I need to stop coming into this thread…….end up bloody hungry!!

If it'll make you more hungry, I'm about to make a nice Chicken Bhuna... Will full fat, knocked on the head, throat slit chicken

 

[Crizzy]

Then don't be concerned about it?

Requoting your post doesn't negate what I posted as being wrong. Had you not chopped off the rest of my post it would have made more sense... I even prefaced it addressing the Soya argument, yet you brought it up again?.. I'm talking about a Vegan poster food and the massive deforestation and animal culling involved in it's production. The whataboutism with soya doesn't negate that fact.

But if you compare the amount of animal deaths in meat Vs avacados then the latter will still be less.

If you want to compare avacados to other plant based options then yes the research you posted indicates that there may be better options.

Do you agree?

 

[Richie]

I also don't expect people to stop driving just because animals and humans die on the roads.

Well of course not, that's a completely different thing and to bring that into it is just daft.

Animals/people being killed on roads are, generally not deliberate... Abattoirs deliberately kill. There's the difference..

Weird point...

Ive been to a pig factory farm, how many do I need to visit before you realize they're all going to be very similar? The ex farm vet that gave a speech there said it was a typical pig farm and ive no reason to doubt her.

So being to 1 pig farm allows you to experience what happens on Beef farms? Sheep farms? Dairy farms? Arable farms?

You continually narrow agriculture examples down to pig farms and then extrapolate this to every agricultural enterprise out there because that's your only experience.


You have no sound arguments outside of your echo chamber.
You are unable/unwilling to even read what people say in their posts, let alone try and understand alternative arguments.
You are unable to allow people to make their own dietary choices which are contrary toy ours without pushing your agenda.

 

[Richie]

Dp

 

[Richie]

But if you compare the amount of animal deaths in meat Vs avacados then the latter will still be less.

If you want to compare avacados to other plant based options then yes the research you posted indicates that there may be better options.

Do you agree?

I've never disagreed.

The point of my post, which I already said, was:

I don't necessarily disagree, in theory, however it's quite clear my post is calling out hypocrisy.

 

[Crizzy]

I've never disagreed.

The point of my post, which I already said, was:

I still don't get the hypocrisy, choosing the plant based option is more ethical than the meat option, even though it's far from perfect.

Edit:

Just to add I would definitely boycott an industry as far as reasonably possible if I knew the impact of my choices had such negative impacts, especially if there were other alternatives available.

I've seen vegans criticising other vegans for choosing to eat avacados, but it's not something I've really spent too much time looking into. My only aim is to reduce as much as possible my impact on what I believe to be unnecessarily animal deaths.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Interesting, never had that brand but will give it a go.

genuinely really like it. it's thick and possibly closer to a tomato pure than a sauce

 

[bigmike20vt]

If it'll make you more hungry, I'm about to make a nice Chicken Bhuna... Will full fat, knocked on the head, throat slit chicken

crispy Kung po chicken with cashews coming my way soon.

 

[Johno please?]

Well of course not, that's a completely different thing and to bring that into it is just daft.

Animals/people being killed on roads are, generally not deliberate... Abattoirs deliberately kill. There's the difference..

So being to 1 pig farm allows you to experience what happens on Beef farms? Sheep farms? Dairy farms? Arable farms?

You continually narrow agriculture examples down to pig farms and then extrapolate this to every agricultural enterprise out there because that's your only experience.


You have no sound arguments outside of your echo chamber.
You are unable/unwilling to even read what people say in their posts, let alone try and understand alternative arguments.
You are unable to allow people to make their own dietary choices which are contrary toy ours without pushing your agenda.

It was an analogy to animals dying in crop farming.

Most animals are factory farmed, factory farms are hell for animals, don't you agree? And then after that hell, they have to endure a slaughterhouse.

So il ask again, did you watch the documentary I posted?

Again what control do I have over peoples choices? I can only try to show people what they're paying for, and you don't even want to see that.

 

[Johno please?]

You haven’t thought problems through. Doing away with animal food stuffs to then try and work through the problems with vegan farming, that aren’t sustainable in first place isn’t going to work as even a temporary measure.

You think raising and feeding 80 billion land animals (globally) is "sustainable"

It really isnt https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food

 

[jigger]

You think raising and feeding 80 billion land animals (globally) is "sustainable"

It really isnt https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food

You think the solution is to stop?

 

[MattTheTall77]

You think the solution is to stop?

The only solution I personally see, as touched a few times, is lab grown meat if it matches taste texture and nutrients, that’s my hope. I’d rather Bill Gates etc funded that than Beyond Meat etc, the former is more likely to be accepted, in my opinion anyway.

 

[flea.rider]

You think raising and feeding 80 billion land animals (globally) is "sustainable"

It really isnt https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food

thats from the people that want you to eat insects .. .. there have been larger wild stocks of animals in the past living off the land ..

 

[flea.rider]

The only solution I personally see, as touched a few times, is lab grown meat if it matches taste texture and nutrients, that’s my hope. I’d rather Bill Gates etc funded that than Beyond Meat etc, the former is more likely to be accepted, in my opinion anyway.

lab grown meat .. so we should take a pregnant cow slaughter it an use the fetus as breeding stock for a machine >? over and over again .. ???

 

[bigmike20vt]

lab grown meat .. so we should take a pregnant cow slaughter it an use the fetus as breeding stock for a machine >? over and over again .. ???

I won't claim to know the details of lab grown meat but I have worked with immortalised cell lines (human) in my work. if they can do something like that with meat then it could work.

I get it however that vegans won't want it but I am not interested in that..... meat does need to be make more sustainable sooner rather than later and ideally I would like to carry on eating it or something like it.
IF meat isn't made more sustainable then sooner or later the decision will be taken out of our hands.
as I have said earlier however the alternative is to cut the planetary population.
I am doing my bit.... we have 1 child and no interest in having any more.

 

[Johno please?]

I still don't get the hypocrisy, choosing the plant based option is more ethical than the meat option, even though it's far from perfect.

Edit:

Just to add I would definitely boycott an industry as far as reasonably possible if I knew the impact of my choices had such negative impacts, especially if there were other alternatives available.

I've seen vegans criticising other vegans for choosing to eat avacados, but it's not something I've really spent too much time looking into. My only aim is to reduce as much as possible my impact on what I believe to be unnecessarily animal deaths.

And the irony is its not like vegans are the driving force behind avocado farming is it.

thats from the people that want you to eat insects .. .. there have been larger wild stocks of animals in the past living off the land ..

Researchers at many different university's want you to eat bugs? Feel free to publish your own data then.

 

[MattTheTall77]

lab grown meat .. so we should take a pregnant cow slaughter it an use the fetus as breeding stock for a machine >? over and over again .. ???

I hadn’t looked at the process before. Just had a google, looks like they have (or trying) found a way to avoid needing a foetus.

In the early days, vegans and vegetarians would have rejected lab-grown meat completely, because it used foetal bovine serum (FBS) as the growth medium. However since then, companies have been working to replace FBS with a growth medium that doesn’t come from animals, and this was achieved for the first time in 2022.8 While lab-grown meat is still considered meat, those who refuse to eat meat for animal welfare reasons may choose to eat it when produced in this way.

Had a look at some other links but they get too technical for my brain.