Distasteful vegan TV ad

[Devilman]

I wish people who eat animal products could just accept they are OK with cruelty and suffering to some degree. Or thats it's not OK for a dog but is OK for a chicken.

At least be honest, because that is what it is.
For those who are honest. I accept that. We all do harm to varying degrees.

And that I think is why these threads get so heated. Many think of themselves as animal lovers. But turn that blind eye to farming.

So responses in this thread will dance around the above with
-but think of the animals
-it's not so bad
-veganism isn't better for the environment
-we can't all go vegan

Veganism is better for the
- environment
- the animals


And it's better for almost the entire world, except extreme climates where people live and use the land in a non intensive way.


But it's hard to admit "I'm OK with cruelty to a pig, a chicken, a cow.. But a dog? No"

Because that's what it is. And that's why I agree that vegans are better than all us non vegans. Simply because they are doing a better job for the planet and animal cruelty. How can that not be "better"?

I wish people who choose not to eat animals would stop trying to act morally superior to those who eat meat.

This constant "you must be ok with cruelty and suffering to some degree" is an utterly flawed, weak, ignorant argument and frankly it's damn offensive.

How DARE you sit there on your moral high horse and judge others for their choices? WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?!

You are not the arbiter of what is and what isn't "morally right" and the very fact you seem to believe you are shows the level of disconnect you have from reality.

The shear arrogance of vegans to constantly shove their views down the throats of others, all the while sitting there acting morally superior because they made a choice - Why are you incapable of respecting everyone ELSE'S choices?

 

[flea.rider]

I wish people who eat animal products could just accept they are OK with cruelty and suffering to some degree. Or thats it's not OK for a dog but is OK for a chicken.

At least be honest, because that is what it is.
For those who are honest. I accept that. We all do harm to varying degrees.

And that I think is why these threads get so heated. Many think of themselves as animal lovers. But turn that blind eye to farming.

So responses in this thread will dance around the above with
-but think of the animals
-it's not so bad
-veganism isn't better for the environment
-we can't all go vegan

Veganism is better for the
- environment
- the animals


And it's better for almost the entire world, except extreme climates where people live and use the land in a non intensive way.


But it's hard to admit "I'm OK with cruelty to a pig, a chicken, a cow.. But a dog? No"

Because that's what it is. And that's why I agree that vegans are better than all us non vegans. Simply because they are doing a better job for the planet and animal cruelty. How can that not be "better"?

what a load of crap ... i am ok with eating anything .. i choose not to eat dogs pigs or cats ... mass veganism has never been tried and will never happen(ask a farmer what happens in vegan fields ... they kill everything ) . just because a few have a problem with killing does not mean the world should stop ..
whole economy's would collapse.. and where would the vegan get there leather shoes ?

 

[robfosters]

I wish people who eat animal products could just accept they are OK with cruelty and suffering to some degree. Or thats it's not OK for a dog but is OK for a chicken.

At least be honest, because that is what it is.
For those who are honest. I accept that. We all do harm to varying degrees.

And that I think is why these threads get so heated. Many think of themselves as animal lovers. But turn that blind eye to farming.

So responses in this thread will dance around the above with
-but think of the animals
-it's not so bad
-veganism isn't better for the environment
-we can't all go vegan

Veganism is better for the
- environment
- the animals


And it's better for almost the entire world, except extreme climates where people live and use the land in a non intensive way.


But it's hard to admit "I'm OK with cruelty to a pig, a chicken, a cow.. But a dog? No"

Because that's what it is. And that's why I agree that vegans are better than all us non vegans. Simply because they are doing a better job for the planet and animal cruelty. How can that not be "better"?

I accept that farming can be cruel and I’d like it be made as non suffering as possible, but until it’s like that, I’m ok with it as meat is too important to me and many others

 

[413x]

I wish people who choose not to eat animals would stop trying to act morally superior to those who eat meat.

This constant "you must be ok with cruelty and suffering to some degree" is an utterly flawed, weak, ignorant argument and frankly it's damn offensive.

How DARE you sit there on your moral high horse and judge others for their choices? WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?!

You are not the arbiter of what is and what isn't "morally right" and the very fact you seem to believe you are shows the level of disconnect you have from reality.

The shear arrogance of vegans to constantly shove their views down the throats of others, all the while sitting there acting morally superior because they made a choice - Why are you incapable of respecting everyone ELSE'S choices?

I'm not vegan

 

[Diddums]

I'm not vegan

Calm down, no need to shove it down our throats

 

[413x]

I accept that farming can be cruel and I’d like it be made as non suffering as possible, but until it’s like that, I’m ok with it as meat is too important to me and many others

This i respect much more. There's always room for improvement.
Buying better welfare products, cutting down, locally sourced vs abroad (where conditions are so so much worse)

 

[Devilman]

I'm not vegan

It was an open response to all those posting the same provocative, offensive nonsense about how people "must be ok with suffering and cruelty". - You were simply the most recent to post / parrot this line and hence I replied to it.

The fact you chose to parrot it also... I cannot help that.

Not you, nor anyone else knows if I am "ok with cruelty and suffering" or not and how DARE you or anyone else try to infer you know what I/We are or are not "ok with".

It's obnoxious, ignorant, self-righteous BS like that makes the entire argument fall down, the person making such claims to instantly lose all respect from those looking for an honest discussion and instantly gets people's backs up (I suspect intentionally).

The very suggestion shows a level of self-importance from those who think they are morally superior because they chose to stop eating meat.

Good for them.


How many have apple products, or cheap tat made in China?

They must be ok with Child Labour, Suffering, Exploitation of Minors etc... then right?

See how utterly obnoxious this line of debate is?

 

[413x]

what a load of crap ... i am ok with eating anything .. i choose not to eat dogs pigs or cats ... mass veganism has never been tried and will never happen(ask a farmer what happens in vegan fields ... they kill everything ) . just because a few have a problem with killing does not mean the world should stop ..
whole economy's would collapse.. and where would the vegan get there leather shoes ?

A full vegan would not wear leather shoes.
Vegan fields kill everything??

 

[413x]

It was an open response to all those posting the same provocative, offensive nonsense about how people "must be ok with suffering and cruelty".

The fact you chose to parrot it also... I cannot help that.

Not you, nor anyone else knows if I am "ok with cruelty and suffering" or not and how DARE you or anyone else try to infer you know what I/We are or are not "ok with".

It's obnoxious, ignorant, self-righteous BS like that makes the entire argument fall down, the person making such claims to instantly lose all respect from those looking for an honest discussion and instantly gets people's backs up (I suspect intentionally).

The very suggestion shows a level of self-importance from those who think they are morally superior because they chose to stop eating meat.

Good for them.


How many have apple products, or cheap tat made in China?

They must be ok with Child Labour, Suffering, Exploitation of Minors etc... then right?

See how utterly obnoxious this line of debate is?

You must be OK with it to a certain degree to eat meat.
Because
-there is an option to not eat meat
-farming is cruel

How can you say you don't accept some level. Of cruelty if you eat meat/dairy?

Genuine question..
-Do you think it's not cruel?
Or
-its OK if it's for food?

 

[Diddums]

This i respect much more. There's always room for improvement.
Buying better welfare products, cutting down, locally sourced vs abroad (where conditions are so so much worse)

And this is the correct approach isn't it. You can quite easily enter a reasoned debate about it and gradually effect change, like we're witnessing with the global warming thing we're going through at the moment.

The problem is when people open a discussion with "YOU'RE MUTILATING GAS CHAMBERING ANIMALS YOU MONSTER" people are just gonna laugh at you, as witnessed here.

I'll be honest, the whole climate change movement has made me make small changes to my lifestyle, and this could likely be achieved with the vegan thing too, but when you class actual animal abuse and people whining about animal abuse as two separate things, something's wrong.

 

[Devilman]

You must be OK with it to a certain degree to eat meat.
Because
-there is an option to not eat meat
-farming is cruel

How can you say you don't accept some level. Of cruelty if you eat meat/dairy?

Genuine question..
-Do you think it's not cruel?
Or
-its OK if it's for food?

Again with the claims that you know what I am and am not "OK With".

Seriously, how dare you? Just how self-important to you have to be to think you know what is inside my head, what I am and am not "ok" with and where my limits on in regard to changing my behaviours.

So I will put it to you again.

Are you ok with Child Labour, Suffering, Exploitation of Minors etc..?

You MUST be because you no-doubt have cheap tat manufactured in china by kids.

Right?

 

[Diddums]

Again with the claims that you know what I am and am not "OK With".

Seriously, how dare you? Just how self-important to you have to be to think you know what is inside my head, what I am and am not "ok" with and where my limits on in regard to changing my behaviours.

So I will put it to you again.

Are you ok with Child Labour, Suffering, Exploitation of Minors etc..?

You MUST be because you no-doubt have cheap tat manufactured in china by kids.

Right?

Wtf are you talking about?

 

[413x]

Again with the claims that you know what I am and am not "OK With".

Seriously, how dare you? Just how self-important to you have to be to think you know what is inside my head, what I am and am not "ok" with and where my limits on in regard to changing my behaviours.

So I will put it to you again.

Are you ok with Child Labour, Suffering, Exploitation of Minors etc..?

I'm OK with a degree of child labour because I buy stuff from china, and it happens over there. It's well publicised. So yes. I accept that what I buy contributes to it.
If I was really against it I wouldn't buy anything from China. Which is very hard.

I ask again to you.

Are you OK with animal cruelty when it comes down to meat consumption?

 

[413x]

Wtf are you talking about?

I think he's had too much salt on his burger and spilt it on himself. And it's thus...salty

 

[413x]

And this is the correct approach isn't it. You can quite easily enter a reasoned debate about it and gradually effect change, like we're witnessing with the global warming thing we're going through at the moment.

The problem is when people open a discussion with "YOU'RE MUTILATING GAS CHAMBERING ANIMALS YOU MONSTER" people are just gonna laugh at you, as witnessed here.

I'll be honest, the whole climate change movement has made me make small changes to my lifestyle, and this could likely be achieved with the vegan thing too, but when you class actual animal abuse and people whining about animal abuse as two separate things, something's wrong.

Absolutely. Militant veganism is not conductive (I'm saying my views in this thread as its a discussion forum, but people bring in the feels.. And that's another hint of guilt, the aggressive reaction).

My gf is vegan and more she pushed the more I resisted. Eventually she learnt that doing it on the sly.. Making good food that was vegan rather than forcing it on me was better.

I do think she's a better person than me, but I don't go around actually saying this to anyone. Not even friends.

 

[andybird123]

Figured out the definition of mutilation yet?



I quite clearly stated i'm not an environmentalist, love the link you've provided btw, "carnivore style" xD

The farminstitue link talks about studies from 2006.... that's not exactly up to date data is it, its not just organizations like PETA saying meat is bad for the environment, its just about every study and data on the subject from non bias sources

Its not just about emissions either, its land use and resources, 80 billion land animals alone use up a lot more crops than 8 billion humans.

Environmental Impacts of Food Production

What are the environmental impacts of food production? How do we reduce the impacts of agriculture on the environment?

ourworldindata.org

Eating less meat 'like taking 8m cars off road'

A new Oxford University study pinpoints for the first time how high- and low-meat diets impact the planet.

www.bbc.co.uk

so, if 65million people gave up meat, its the same as 8 million cars off the road, so me not having a car is 8 times better for the environment than you not eating meat *slow clap*
me eating meat is even less impactful too as mine is all free range / forage fed with zero miles and I own the land they live on so its taking up 0 amount of farm land and any water use comes from our own stream

 

[Devilman]

I'm OK with a degree of child labour because I buy stuff from china, and it happens over there. It's well publicised. So yes. I accept that what I buy contributes to it.
If I was really against it I wouldn't buy anything from China. Which is very hard.

I ask again to you.

Are you OK with animal cruelty when it comes down to meat consumption?

No, I am not remotely "ok with animal cruelty" at all, whether meat production or simply pets / wild animals.

That is the very reason we have welfare standards (which can still stand to be improved).

The fact that some unscrupulous individuals may choose to operate their farms in a manner which does not comply with our welfare standards should neither be used as a judgement on everyone who eats meat, nor on the farms / farmers who most of them care greatly for their lifestock.

I would far prefer the most "humane" , natural (free-range?) reared livestock that are then killed, butchered and processed in the most painless, "traumaless" method possible.

 

[tom_e]

Wtf are you talking about?

 

[413x]

No, I am not remotely "ok with animal cruelty" at all, whether meat production or simply pets / wild animals.

That is the very reason we have welfare standards (which can still stand to be improved).

The fact that some unscrupulous individuals may choose to operate their farms in a manner which does not comply with our welfare standards should neither be used as a judgement on everyone who eats meat, nor on the farms / farmers who most of them care greatly for their lifestock.

I would far prefer the most "humane" , natural (free-range?) reared livestock that are then killed, butchered and processed in the most painless, "traumaless" method possible.

I'm afraid to tell you the standards are not great. And not high enough.
By that I mean you would never allow your dog (as a dog owner this goes for me) to live in these conditions. It's brutal.

Particularly for pigs and meat birds.
Dairy is also grim. One of the worst apparently.


Unfortunately the standards don't go far enough.

In an ideal world, the animal would live a relatively natural life, outdoors, without genetics which promote discomfort.
They would be killed cleanly.. And not in slaughter houses. Many animals are intelligent enough (especially pigs) to know what's going on.

No idea how we get away from slaughter houses. That part is super grim. Animals missing being stunned etc.

 

[Uther]

Wtf are you talking about?

He's gone off on one again.