Do Paedos Really Get Beat Up In Jail?

Amp34 · 3 Jul 2015 at 10:19

Bensons said:
Well according to Rolf Harris, jail is like a country club.

Did anyone ever get to the bottom of whether it was actually written by Harris, rather than someone else pretending?

Sandycheeks · 3 Jul 2015 at 10:32

Amp34 said:
I read an interesting article about it actually being a sexual orientation. It's why it's "incurable", in the same way homosexuality or hetrosexuality is not something you can "cure". I think the study behind it showed something like 1 in 10 men are paedophiles, just most don't act on their urges and/or there are different shades of it (in the same way that people can be a range from hetro-bi-homo).

That brings up a similar question to yours though, because you are essentially jailing someone for a genetic disposition (albeit a crime related to it). That same question can arise with murderers though, apparently many murderers have a genetic disposition (psychopath), which is fairly prevelant in society, but in some people it is switched on by the way they were nurtured.

My thoughts also.
I always wondered how many have seeked help and how many have tried to ignore in the hope it will go away.
I recently had a half drunken conversation about this and tbh I expected to be strung up after saying I actually feel sorry for the paedo as if it is something that is just in-built then how would someone deal with that and it must be a very hard existence and extremely difficult to deal with.

Those that choose it as a lifestyle should be rounded up and shot !

Surely this goes back to our evolutionary change from animals to slightly less animalistic humans.

jsmoke · 3 Jul 2015 at 10:35

Amp34 said:
I read an interesting article about it actually being a sexual orientation. It's why it's "incurable", in the same way homosexuality or hetrosexuality is not something you can "cure". I think the study behind it showed something like 1 in 10 men are paedophiles, just most don't act on their urges and/or there are different shades of it (in the same way that people can be a range from hetro-bi-homo).

That brings up a similar question to yours though, because you are essentially jailing someone for a genetic disposition (albeit a crime related to it). That same question can arise with murderers though, apparently many murderers have a genetic disposition (psychopath), which is fairly prevelant in society, but in some people it is switched on by the way they were nurtured.

Nature vs. nurture argument, one things for sure imo however, you can't unlearn or forget anything your have learned, fantasised and/or acted out, doesn't mean there is no hope but you would need to be able to move on to a new life and put the old life behind.

The genetic disposition argument is valid I believe not in a physical way but due to thoughts, feelings and ideas being passed down from generation to generation within a family, either in a conscious or subconscious way. Essentially your given a weak disposition toward certain feelings and attitudes and these can be further exploited due to your worldly influences.

Burnsy2023 · 3 Jul 2015 at 10:39

Amp34 said:
I read an interesting article about it actually being a sexual orientation. It's why it's "incurable", in the same way homosexuality or hetrosexuality is not something you can "cure". I think the study behind it showed something like 1 in 10 men are paedophiles, just most don't act on their urges and/or there are different shades of it (in the same way that people can be a range from hetro-bi-homo).

That brings up a similar question to yours though, because you are essentially jailing someone for a genetic disposition (albeit a crime related to it). That same question can arise with murderers though, apparently many murderers have a genetic disposition (psychopath), which is fairly prevelant in society, but in some people it is switched on by the way they were nurtured.

Like many mental health issues, this is so many shades of grey. There is an argument that at least a subset of peadophiles should be in secure health facilities rather than prison, but then there are people who are well aware of their actions and the consequences.

Part of living in a society is having urges and thoughts that you know aren't acceptable to act on - be that theft, assault or anything else - and keeping that in check. Some people find that difficult through mental health issues and should be helped and some just don't want to have that self control. It's very difficult to know which side people are on though.

George Hincapie · 3 Jul 2015 at 10:46

estebanrey said:
It's someone else I'm talking about. I haven't been arrested for touching up kids......

...yet!

Not a subject to joke about.

fez · 3 Jul 2015 at 12:28

Sandycheeks said:
My thoughts also.
I always wondered how many have seeked help and how many have tried to ignore in the hope it will go away.

Its such a touchy subject in this country and most of the civilised world that 99% of people wouldn't dare admit to having those thoughts. Plenty of people would treat you like an acting paedophile even if you had never acted on those urges or pursued them at all.

Its not a simple diagnosis either I would imagine. As an alcoholic you like booze. Thats a fairly cut and dry issues. Paedophiles cover a huge range from those that like infants to those who find 15 year old girls attractive. Its a very arbitrary thing as well.

If you sleep with a girl who is 13 but looks 17 your are a paedophile yet if you sleep with a 17 year old who looks 13 thats completely fine.

Either way, society doesn't look like changing its view on this sort of thing anytime soon and anyone who suggests a more sensible or pragmatic attitude would simply be accused of supporting it or down playing its seriousness.

Personally I think murder is a worse crime but the general consensus seems to be that paedophilia is worse.

Harlequin · 3 Jul 2015 at 12:33

Amp34 said:
I read an interesting article about it actually being a sexual orientation. It's why it's "incurable", in the same way homosexuality or hetrosexuality is not something you can "cure". I think the study behind it showed something like 1 in 10 men are paedophiles, just most don't act on their urges and/or there are different shades of it (in the same way that people can be a range from hetro-bi-homo).

That brings up a similar question to yours though, because you are essentially jailing someone for a genetic disposition (albeit a crime related to it). That same question can arise with murderers though, apparently many murderers have a genetic disposition (psychopath), which is fairly prevelant in society, but in some people it is switched on by the way they were nurtured.

you have fallen into the media` trap` over the use of the word `paedophile`

by definition it is someone who is sexually attracted to prepubescence (under 13) children

so running off to france with a 15 (near 16) year old isn't a `paedophile` - it would be defined as `Ephebophilia` - of which im very sure , anyone who has ever seen ` sararh,18 from Essex` on page 3 would also fall into that category
Ephebophilia is the sexual attraction for young adults between 15 and 19....

Mujja · 3 Jul 2015 at 12:57

estebanrey said:
Have people thought the films Scum and The Shawshank Redemption were documentaries?

He'll need to watch the documentary on how to survive in prison, Get Hard

mmj_uk · 3 Jul 2015 at 13:01

If you're part of the establishment or a muslim you don't even go to jail for it, just gets brushed under the carpet.

arknor · 3 Jul 2015 at 13:15

mmj_uk said:
If you're part of the establishment or a muslim you don't even go to jail for it, just gets brushed under the carpet.

Speaking from experience or just in general ?

estebanrey · 3 Jul 2015 at 13:20

George Hincapie said:
Not a subject to joke about.

Tell ozaudio as well then

estebanrey · 3 Jul 2015 at 13:21

Harlequin said:
you have fallen into the media` trap` over the use of the word `paedophile`

by definition it is someone who is sexually attracted to prepubescence (under 13) children

so running off to france with a 15 (near 16) year old isn't a `paedophile` - it would be defined as `Ephebophilia` - of which im very sure , anyone who has ever seen ` sararh,18 from Essex` on page 3 would also fall into that category
Ephebophilia is the sexual attraction for young adults between 15 and 19....

There are hebephiles as well.

russell664 · 3 Jul 2015 at 13:28

Burnsy2023 said:
I was reading loss about this aa whine ago. Did you know the majority of child sex offenders have been victims of child sexual abuse during their lives?

Yes, hence why sometimes they see it as normal because it happened to them previously.

I used to work with children, some who had been sexually exploited, and they used to touch inappropriately, to get what they wanted, because that is all they know. Yes it can be addressed, but even then it can take a long time, and even not work at all.

The same thing can be said for stealing things such as food, if a child is starved, even when they have food on the table, they will stow it away as if they expect no food to come the next day/meal time. Again, this can take a very long time to get the child out of the habit.

I guess this translates in effect into adult life, but again not everyone is identified to have such traumatic experience.

Amp34 · 3 Jul 2015 at 13:54

Burnsy2023 said:
Like many mental health issues, this is so many shades of grey. There is an argument that at least a subset of peadophiles should be in secure health facilities rather than prison, but then there are people who are well aware of their actions and the consequences.

Part of living in a society is having urges and thoughts that you know aren't acceptable to act on - be that theft, assault or anything else - and keeping that in check. Some people find that difficult through mental health issues and should be helped and some just don't want to have that self control. It's very difficult to know which side people are on though.

Totally agree, I'm not suggsting that someone that acts on their instinct and breaks the law should be handed a get out of jail free card, however there is an argument to remove much of the stigma that follows even the sniff of being a "paedo". That way people may actually be able to go and seek help before they offend, instead of sitting alone, stewing until they possibly offend.

I think there is still a heck of a lot to learn about the role of genetics, mental faculty (possibly not quite the right word) and past experiences in all crimes and areas of society. As an example, and I mentioned before, we now have an idea that some people are more predisposed to acts of extreme violence than others. How can we use that knowledge and expand on that understanding to reduce crime rates?

Harlequin said:
you have fallen into the media` trap` over the use of the word `paedophile`

by definition it is someone who is sexually attracted to prepubescence (under 13) children

so running off to france with a 15 (near 16) year old isn't a `paedophile` - it would be defined as `Ephebophilia` - of which im very sure , anyone who has ever seen ` sararh,18 from Essex` on page 3 would also fall into that category
Ephebophilia is the sexual attraction for young adults between 15 and 19....

Not in the slightest, nowhere did I mention age. In fact I was specifically talking about the attraction to pre pubescent people. As you say Ephebophilia is a totally different kettle of fish, evolutionarily it makes "sense" reproductively. Our society puts an arbitrary age on sexual reproduction based on our current opinion of mental facualty (I.e. Consent and knowing what you are doing) and, to an extent, reproductive ability.

Paedophilia is different, it makes no "sense" evolutionarily as children aren't of reproductive age.

Anyway, not sure why you thought I had fallen into the media trap? If you mean the shades of grey point that was more a reflection on the possibility that some people will be only attracted to kids, some attracted to kids, but equally as attracted to adults and the majority of people attracted to adults. In the same way that some people are only attracted to members of the same sex, some people are attracted to both men and women and most people are attracted to people of the opposite sex. It's probably the former that are the biggest issue as they would have no other way of (legal) sexual relief. How you deal with that I have no idea. Locking them up and throwing away the key is a little draconian IMO...

Xordium · 3 Jul 2015 at 14:13

jsmoke said:
Nature vs. nurture argument

Argghhh there is no nature vs nurture argument unless you're stuck in the last century. Why do people keep persistently peddling such nonsense.

jas72 · 3 Jul 2015 at 14:18

Malevolence said:
Is he a paedo. though, as in he's fiddled with pre-pubescent children or is he some bloke who got drunk on a night out and believed the 15 year old girl when she said she was 18?

It's the same thing isn't it? :confused:

Law is the law...

Harlequin · 3 Jul 2015 at 14:26

jas72 said:
It's the same thing isn't it?

Law is the law...

in the trial by media it is the same thing - and the differences between the `justice` men and women get is aweful

case point - Jeremy Forrest - went off to france with his 15 year old gf - got dragged back in handcuffs - and at his trial , she was also brought to court - in handcuffs , at the end of her GCSE maths exam to ensure she would stand in the box (or face prison herself). he got 5 years and is released in a months time

whereas Charlotte Parker , had a 2 year affair with a 14 year old - walked away free.

timebomb26 · 3 Jul 2015 at 14:31

estebanrey said:
that damn European Court of Human Rights

Yeah I hate those guys....

jsmoke · 3 Jul 2015 at 14:34

Xordium said:
Argghhh there is no nature vs nurture argument unless you're stuck in the last century. Why do people keep persistently peddling such nonsense.

I'm listening. I assume you don't have children also?

If you did you would know each child from the day they are born have their own unique personalities and traits.

Also you should know that people are heavily effected by environmental factor.s So what am I missing here?

elmarko · 3 Jul 2015 at 14:37

Amp34 said:
I read an interesting article about it actually being a sexual orientation. It's why it's "incurable", in the same way homosexuality or hetrosexuality is not something you can "cure". I think the study behind it showed something like 1 in 10 men are paedophiles, just most don't act on their urges and/or there are different shades of it (in the same way that people can be a range from hetro-bi-homo).

That brings up a similar question to yours though, because you are essentially jailing someone for a genetic disposition (albeit a crime related to it). That same question can arise with murderers though, apparently many murderers have a genetic disposition (psychopath), which is fairly prevelant in society, but in some people it is switched on by the way they were nurtured.

There is a logical way of looking at it.

We lock people up because we deem them to be a danger to society or if the time in prison would aid rehabilitation. We ensure the prison isn't barbaric & we tailor it to rehabilitate those who we are able to, or leave those we are not for the good of everybody else.

The sooner we move away from instead of automatically hating criminals & instead moving towards hating the actions they do, we can start to look at undesirable behaviour the same way we do any other public health issue.

What should matter is prevention & protecting the public - everything else is pretty meaningless & downright irresponsible if it endangers more people in the long term.

I can't take credit for not being a psychopath, neither can I take credit for being attracted to adult women as opposed to children - I didn't pick either of these things. I highly doubt anybody picks who they are attracted to, that sadly includes paedophiles.

One could argue we should stop our hysteria regarding the hatred of them - as we are essentially preventing people from seeking help (who may want to control the urges but fear repercussions/violence from declaring it).

I have no idea what the populations are regarding this, but there will be a number - I recall reading about a number requesting chemical castration (as they know the thoughts they have are wrong, but also know they can't control their urges).