Do Paedos Really Get Beat Up In Jail?
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Soldato
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The person and their actions are inextricably linked. I don't murder and rape because it is not part of my person to do so. If that is within another person, why shouldn't we ostracise them? Clearly they have undesirable traits.
People are very keen these days to categorise all deviant and criminal behaviour as a mental health issue. It's bizarre.
Soldato
Hating the person isn't useful is the point, it goes from a useful assessment of how to handle undesirable behaviour & crosses into justification for revenge/other forms of punishment that exasperate criminality & prevent rehabilitation.
I find the desire to simplify complex systems into easy to understand & ultimately incorrect views equally bizarre.
I do have children. I have 5 and I fail to see how it changes the argument.
You've said nature vs nurture. That's a simplistic way of looking at it and not correct. Nature and nurture both effect each other to create an end result.
A child born with a genetic potential of athletic build can be starved. They will then become underweight, their genes then recognise that and shape metabolic pathways that cause other genes to build different proteins that tell the body to store any excess food where possible, when food intake increases when they are older, those pathways that wouldn't be present without that environmental starvation are still active so the tendency to store food as fat is there. Our now genetic athletic kid has grown into an obese adult who dies early of cardiovascular disease. All of that is mutable along the way. There was not 'nature vs nurture' here is wasn't adversarial it was complimentary one feeding back into the other.
We have to remember selection and consequences are measured at the phenotype. The phenotype is a symbiosis of both (in the main with the odd exception). Saying 'nature vs nurture' is like saying 'survival of the fittest'. It's not correct. It's a hangover to stupid arguments last century where both side wanted exclusive rights on the destiny of men.
Mental relates to the mind.
Health is an absence of disease or injury.
Diseases are disorders in structure/function that cause specific symptoms.
Therefore something that causes specific symptoms, that are not found in large proportion of the population, is a disease and when that disease is associated with the mind then I think it's fair to label it as a mental health issue by pure definition.
I remember watching a program a long time ago about brothels and prostitues general sex trade etc in London and a famous, well used brothel had there "best" prostitute who was 13 or 14 at the time with men coming from all over to see her.
It also explained about how that was seen as normal at the time and this was early 1900's so not even 2 or 3 generations old. Its just that todays society has seen it as wrong for that early teen age.
im guessing tho that infants and even babies was seen as wrong in those times? hopefully anyway
It also explained about how that was seen as normal at the time and this was early 1900's so not even 2 or 3 generations old. Its just that todays society has seen it as wrong for that early teen age.
im guessing tho that infants and even babies was seen as wrong in those times? hopefully anyway
Bro, do you even phrenology?
What proportion of murders and rapists would you guess have mental health issues? Isn't there a value in understanding and addressing that as both prevention and rehabilitation?
Soldato
Stafford prison... he only lives 2 miles away from me!!
Soldato
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There is no treatment, that is like suggesting you could "cure" homosexuality.
I don't believe in the death penalty, but I think they should all be locked up for life. They are such abhorrent crimes which tend to have incredibly damaging life long impacts on the victims.
Perhaps we should think about helping them rather than giving them nowhere to turn before they commit a crime?
If someone admitted to being attracted to kids, but not acted on it (ie never committed a crime) the police would probably be notified, family and friends find out, they would probably be fired from their job, even if they were never charged. Why instead can't they go and get help without that over their heads?
As for why we are now categorising more and more deviant and criminal behaviour as mental health issues, it's because we are understanding the brain more, we are starting to see more and more how genetics, health and nurture affect people's behaviour. The more we research the more we realise that some (but probably not all) can, or could have been, helped before they committed crimes.
It goes back to Elmarkos retribution vs rehabilitation post further up.
Edit: interestingly the article/study pointed out the psychopath "gene" is probably quite an important one. They were probably the people more likely to be going to battle...
I'll see if I can find the articles tonight as The data is at the back of my mind right now, I could be wrong about bits and I don't remember the numbers.
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Soldato
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I also recall one element of a mental health disorder is when the condition impends on ones ability to function within society (in one form or another).
Acting in ways which causes direct harm to others & results in imprisonment are perfect examples of this.
Indeed, the data surrounding the history of most abusers & murders is one of victim-hood if you go far back enough. It's sad but people confuse wanting to understand the underline causes (and therefore wanting to prevent) as being akin to wanting to let rapists & murderers run riot.
It's someone else I'm talking about. I haven't been arrested for touching up kids......
...yet!
of all the jokes, this is the worst one you could have made
Interesting. Your saying that both nature and nurture both mutually existst to effect the outcome. If so how can you come to such a conclusion, some would regard that theory as quite divine.
Then those some would be tremendously stupid when simple evolution will do.
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Do Paedos Really Get Beat Up In Jail?
Well they certainly should do!
I've often thought about how sex offenders/killers like Huntley, West, Brady etc interact with each other in prison. And I wonder if it is a bit like some old soldier ending up at the Chelsea Pensioners and talking "WhenEye" at every opportunity, with every guy in the discussion trying to outdo each other? "You should have heard her scream when I put xxxxx in her mouth and she cried for her mummy"...... "That's nothing, when I got hold of those two, I made one of them watch whilst I sodomised the other, you should have seen the look on her face, ha, ha, ha."...... "When I was in Gloucester, I used to make them scream by removing their kneecaps, it was so funny, the Missus used to......................."
I do believe in the death penalty and if I had my way we would have retrospective hanging. Pass a law bringing back the death penalty then look at all those in prison who committed such crimes which in the future would be punished by the death penalty and hang them by the end of the week.
I do understand that in some instances these people can't be cured. I wouldn't bother trying to cure them, just hang them by the end of the week.
The only way I'd accept life in prison was if it was on Devil's Island in solitary confinement, but even then I'd be considering dragging them out during their sentence and hanging them.
Can anyone imagine what it must be like every day of the week being a parent of those children who were murdered? And what about the shame that shadows people throughout the whole of their lives who were abused by adults when they were children?
I very much doubt if parents or the abused would loose much sleep thinking that the perpetrators had been hanged (just make sure that it happened soon after the trial) but I bet they loose plenty of sleep thinking about them being in prison, where they might be released, watching Sky Sports, talking over old times with their mates........
Well they certainly should do!
I've often thought about how sex offenders/killers like Huntley, West, Brady etc interact with each other in prison. And I wonder if it is a bit like some old soldier ending up at the Chelsea Pensioners and talking "WhenEye" at every opportunity, with every guy in the discussion trying to outdo each other? "You should have heard her scream when I put xxxxx in her mouth and she cried for her mummy"...... "That's nothing, when I got hold of those two, I made one of them watch whilst I sodomised the other, you should have seen the look on her face, ha, ha, ha."...... "When I was in Gloucester, I used to make them scream by removing their kneecaps, it was so funny, the Missus used to......................."
I do believe in the death penalty and if I had my way we would have retrospective hanging. Pass a law bringing back the death penalty then look at all those in prison who committed such crimes which in the future would be punished by the death penalty and hang them by the end of the week.
I do understand that in some instances these people can't be cured. I wouldn't bother trying to cure them, just hang them by the end of the week.
The only way I'd accept life in prison was if it was on Devil's Island in solitary confinement, but even then I'd be considering dragging them out during their sentence and hanging them.
Can anyone imagine what it must be like every day of the week being a parent of those children who were murdered? And what about the shame that shadows people throughout the whole of their lives who were abused by adults when they were children?
I very much doubt if parents or the abused would loose much sleep thinking that the perpetrators had been hanged (just make sure that it happened soon after the trial) but I bet they loose plenty of sleep thinking about them being in prison, where they might be released, watching Sky Sports, talking over old times with their mates........
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Someone also got the sack at my workplace for the same thing last week.
Soldato
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Can one actually successfully change this behavioural thought process in a paedophile?
They get released at the end of their sentence whether rehabilitated or not, in most cases, unless an indeterminate sentence has been applied, and that doesn't happen as often as it might.