Poll: Do you think AMD will be able to compete with Nvidia again during the next few years?

[jigger]

If Navi isn't due until 2019 I don't want it to compete with current cards. I would like to see AMD release something that either competes with the top end of Nvidias next release or outright beats it.

AMD releasing something next year to compete with what Nvidia is offering this year would be incredibly short sighted.

Well that would depend on the strategy wouldn't it?

 

[KentMan]

If Navi isn't due until 2019 I don't want it to compete with current cards. I would like to see AMD release something that either competes with the top end of Nvidias next release or outright beats it.

AMD releasing something next year to compete with what Nvidia is offering this year would be incredibly short sighted.

It would be foolish and financial suicide for AMD to try and compete with Nvidia at the top end... AMD's biggest TAM is the mid to low end section, Nvidia have the high end covered, AMD can offer downgraded enterprise products in this sector, but its foolish them trying to design specifically for this sector, the market is just not big enough to warrant the stupid cost of doing so, look at Nvidia 2080ti etc. The reason its so expensive is because of the sheer size of the thing, the overall share of the market it addresses is actually minuscule in the grand scheme of things, people simply do not go out in droves to buy these halo products. Do not be mistaken by thinking you see them being owned by people on enthusiast forums that this is indicative of what the general populace purchase because it is not.

2080ti is the card that dictates the price of the cards below it, the cost of bringing it to market, and the small market it addresses means the cost of the card was always going to be high, the product stack below it is priced then accordingly.

AMD just need to fight Nvidias lower tier offerings, 2060, 2070 and potentially the 2080. I guarantee mining aside the majority of AMD's GPU revenue comes from the lower tier products, 460, 470 tier cards etc, their revenue from Vega is extremely low as there is relatively zero to no margin on the product, i believe it is almost or is a loss for manufacturers.

So AMD just needs to bring products that compete with Nvidias 2050 / 2060 tiers etc, if they beat the performance, heat, power etc and price, other than Nvidias mindshare, they will get good sales. Also AMD's current wins with Zen etc will help them gain traction and mindshare in other markets such as GPU as their brand is currently a buzzword for many, and seen "on the up" so they will also sway fence sitters and first time buyers across as well.

 

[Shaz12]

If Navi isn't due until 2019 I don't want it to compete with current cards. I would like to see AMD release something that either competes with the top end of Nvidias next release or outright beats it.

AMD releasing something next year to compete with what Nvidia is offering this year would be incredibly short sighted.

Well if they come out at a significantly lower price, that would light a fire under NVIDIA. These current prices of the 2080 and the 2080ti are crazy

 

[StriderX]

Pretty sure AMD has given up trying to compete at the top end, they just want to destroy the low end and eat into the mid-tier as much as possible and sit there.

 

[Marine-RX179]

Absolutely correct.
GTX 1080 Ti now has 3584 shaders, RTX 2080 Ti now has 4352 shaders.
nvidia has nothing else to do but to double this shaders count up to 7168 shaders and 8704 shaders.

Just because they can, doesn't mean that they would.

If they do bring out the big guns, you can expect performance aside the pricing tag will also be miles away from AMD's offering, to milk the 1% further rather than catering for the mainstream. For the mainstream, they ALWAYS bring out cards that are only tiny bit faster than AMD's equivalent offering, and then become slower over time.

Those mid-range chip are the true cash-cow for Nvidia, as the margin is generally better than the big chip cards and easier to shift.

 

[4K8KW10]

It would be foolish and financial suicide for AMD to try and compete with Nvidia at the top end... AMD's biggest TAM is the mid to low end section, Nvidia have the high end covered, AMD can offer downgraded enterprise products in this sector, but its foolish them trying to design specifically for this sector, the market is just not big enough to warrant the stupid cost of doing so, look at Nvidia 2080ti etc. The reason its so expensive is because of the sheer size of the thing, the overall share of the market it addresses is actually minuscule in the grand scheme of things, people simply do not go out in droves to buy these halo products. Do not be mistaken by thinking you see them being owned by people on enthusiast forums that this is indicative of what the general populace purchase because it is not.

2080ti is the card that dictates the price of the cards below it, the cost of bringing it to market, and the small market it addresses means the cost of the card was always going to be high, the product stack below it is priced then accordingly.

AMD just need to fight Nvidias lower tier offerings, 2060, 2070 and potentially the 2080. I guarantee mining aside the majority of AMD's GPU revenue comes from the lower tier products, 460, 470 tier cards etc, their revenue from Vega is extremely low as there is relatively zero to no margin on the product, i believe it is almost or is a loss for manufacturers.

So AMD just needs to bring products that compete with Nvidias 2050 / 2060 tiers etc, if they beat the performance, heat, power etc and price, other than Nvidias mindshare, they will get good sales. Also AMD's current wins with Zen etc will help them gain traction and mindshare in other markets such as GPU as their brand is currently a buzzword for many, and seen "on the up" so they will also sway fence sitters and first time buyers across as well.

I hope you realise that a top performing halo part from AMD is needed because the new resolutions 4K and 8K demand this power and AMD must invest more silicon area in the process?
And also, a halo AMD part will sell the other, lower-tier parts, too.

 

[4K8KW10]

Just because they can, doesn't mean that they would.

If they do bring out the big guns, you can expect performance aside the pricing tag will also be miles away from AMD's offering, to milk the 1% further rather than catering for the mainstream. For the mainstream, they ALWAYS bring out cards that are only tiny bit faster than AMD's equivalent offering, and then become slower over time.

Those mid-range chip are the true cash-cow for Nvidia, as the margin is generally better than the big chip cards and easier to shift.

No, AMD is lagging behind and they need to do something.

 

[Marine-RX179]

Pretty sure AMD has given up trying to compete at the top end, they just want to destroy the low end and eat into the mid-tier as much as possible and sit there.

Can't really blame them, as history has clearly shown that it's pointless with the HD5800 series destroyed the GTX285 and the HD7900 series destroyed GTX500 series for 4-6 months didn't really help them much in gaining the market back.

The reality is that people that always bought Nvidia simply wouldn't jump over to AMD, and those that would represent are very small portion of the market, and that's the truth (much like people that always bought Apple product won't not even bother consider the alternatives out there).

 

[StriderX]

And the fact is that those Nvidia hawks only want AMD to compete so the price drops for their Nvidia cards, like seriously the transparency is too much.

AMD just needs to work out an architecture that can compete 'eventually' while Nvidia flounders like Intel did.

 

[Marine-RX179]

No, AMD is lagging behind and they need to do something.

Nope. Nothing AMD themselves could do to change this. The only way that that AMD would have a chance to winning the market back is if Nvidia somehow royally shoot themselves in the foot with their huge ego and completely p off the consumers, in ways like Bethesda did.

 

[jigger]

I hope you realise that a top performing halo part from AMD is needed because the new resolutions 4K and 8K demand this power and AMD must invest more silicon area in the process?
And also, a halo AMD part will sell the other, lower-tier parts, too.

Nvidia need a halo strategy with parts in every segment. AMD don't as they are operating in more than just the add-on board segment. AMD are the halo.

 

[KentMan]

Nope. Nothing AMD themselves could do to change this. The only way that that AMD would have a chance to winning the market back is if Nvidia somehow royally shoot themselves in the foot with their huge ego and completely p off the consumers, in ways like Bethesda did.

No, the majority share is the low end, AMD are currently the "Golden Child" of the tech industry, many people sitting up and taking note now only think they make CPU's, AMD need to target the biggest market in the GPU Space and that is the low to mid tier, once they get a foothold into that, that opens up more possibility for them, and will bring decent market share gains.

But AMD need a competitive product that is beating Nvidia on all fronts, price, performance, power consumption, heat and even aesthetics etc.. they have to completely destroy Nvidia on all metrics of GPU design to start swaying consumer choice across to them, if they do not then history will just repeat itself... "Drivers suck", "Cards too hot", "Uses too much power", "Performance sucks"...

If they can address the common usual concerns and beat Nvidia at them, leaving no room for people to use excuses to downtread their products, then people who are not brandloyalists will start buying AMD GPU's, more than normal.

 

[KentMan]

I hope you realise that a top performing halo part from AMD is needed because the new resolutions 4K and 8K demand this power and AMD must invest more silicon area in the process?
And also, a halo AMD part will sell the other, lower-tier parts, too.

Yes because 99% of the market is on 4K / 8K.... wake up dude... you address the "Largest" sector of the market with your product, not the niche sectors, once the market shifts, you move with it, market has not shifted to 4K yet, let alone 8K.... Investing in halo products to fight those sectors is a stupid bad decision that ultimately leads to disappointment.

 

[jigger]

Nvidia need to invent a new market for really expensive add in cards with performance that is miles ahead of anything else. Thier problem is they can't seem to do that yet. What Nvidia have so far looks like overpriced tat to me.

 

[Darujhistan]

No, the majority share is the low end, AMD are currently the "Golden Child" of the tech industry, many people sitting up and taking note now only think they make CPU's, AMD need to target the biggest market in the GPU Space and that is the low to mid tier, once they get a foothold into that, that opens up more possibility for them, and will bring decent market share gains.

But AMD need a competitive product that is beating Nvidia on all fronts, price, performance, power consumption, heat and even aesthetics etc.. they have to completely destroy Nvidia on all metrics of GPU design to start swaying consumer choice across to them, if they do not then history will just repeat itself... "Drivers suck", "Cards too hot", "Uses too much power", "Performance sucks"...

If they can address the common usual concerns and beat Nvidia at them, leaving no room for people to use excuses to downtread their products, then people who are not brandloyalists will start buying AMD GPU's, more than normal.

I think AMD do a better job with drivers already, and price/performance.

 

[jigger]

No, AMD is lagging behind and they need to do something.

Intel are bigger than both. What pie chart is that?

 

[twistedheat]

Yes because 99% of the market is on 4K / 8K.... wake up dude... you address the "Largest" sector of the market with your product, not the niche sectors, once the market shifts, you move with it, market has not shifted to 4K yet, let alone 8K.... Investing in halo products to fight those sectors is a stupid bad decision that ultimately leads to disappointment.

Lol, the market hasn't even shifted to 1440p yet. On the latest steam hardware survey, only 3.5% of users are on 1440p. 1.3% on 4k. And a few other % in between.

64.29% are on 1080p, and a further 28.13% play BELOW 1080p.

 

[4K8KW10]

Lol, the market hasn't even shifted to 1440p yet. On the latest steam hardware survey, only 3.5% of users are on 1440p. 1.3% on 4k. And a few other % in between.

64.29% are on 1080p, and a further 28.13% play BELOW 1080p.

If you look at these surveys, 90% of the market is still stuck at 1280x768
But I have already moved to 4K, am looking for a suitable graphics card from AMD that pushes all the games at acceptable framerates at 4K, and also am looking to test 8K soon.

 

[LePhuronn]

everyone keeps talking about navi and big navi, and how it will sit in between 2080 and 2080ti with late 2019 release but that is not good enough.
Everyone forgets nvidia will have an answer for navi and probably on 7nm too. Navi might be good enough to compete with rtx series IF and only if it releases now not 1 year from now.

Except nobboy has ever said that.

All of the Navi rumours have said Navi will come in at just above GTX 1080 performance, establishing/cementing what "midrange" performance will be. The only talk of a "Big" Navi came from an interview with (I think) Papermaster who hinted that there is a bigger Navi in the works which will bring a lot more performance. And it's not like the raw pixel pushing capabilities of the RTX line are magnitudes greater than the GTX 10 series anyway, so if Navi can come in above GTX 1080 performance that automatically means it's trading blows with the RTX 2070.

And even IF Nvidia release a 7nm Turing, they won't do so before Navi lands, by which time AMD are already working on Arcturus due in 2020..

 

[jigger]

Lol, the market hasn't even shifted to 1440p yet. On the latest steam hardware survey, only 3.5% of users are on 1440p. 1.3% on 4k. And a few other % in between.

64.29% are on 1080p, and a further 28.13% play BELOW 1080p.

That survey would be heavily infulenced by mobile PC's.