Doctor Who

Meddling-Monk · 29 Jul 2021 at 18:16

Sadly even with their departure, I have doubts that the next lot (Doctor and showrunner) will be able to recover the show. Many older fans/viewers have left Doctor Who in the dark already and no longer willing to give it another chance, because not only did this lot do a poor run, but they crapped all over the last 60 odd years worth of history all in one go as well, making it quite hard to continue without needing to address it. So the next lot will need to:

1. Undo that mess. But BBC likely won't let them.
2. Keep going with that mess. Which no one wants, and we have no idea how it'll conclude this Season. So it could be workable (which we doubt given current track record), or it could make it even worse and more difficult to reconcile. Meaning we need to do 1 (which again, BBC won't let happen). Or...
3. Ignore Whitaker and Chibnall entirely. Which is the likely result and won't get you any fans who care about the previous 60 odd years to return either, which means you are fighting to not drown from the lack of interest, rather than make a good show.

You'll need a Mandalorian effort (needing 1 season to get everyone interested again in the Franchise, before retconning in season 2 and making everyone come back on board), by which time, most showrunners and Doctors are nearing out the end of their run already through modern Nu-Who (2-3 seasons). Which means very little time to really do what they want other than attempting to right a continuing to sink half sunk ship already. So it really will live or die with the next lot, and I'm not sure anyone is brave enough to be seen as the one who captained the last ride of Doctor Who, even if the rot began with Whitaker and Chibnall.

steve5424 · 29 Jul 2021 at 19:07

See I don't think many of the older fans have left the show. They are still clearly watching as they always go online and whinge about it afterwards.

Meddling-Monk · 29 Jul 2021 at 19:21

steve5424 said:
See I don't think many of the older fans have left the show. They are still clearly watching as they always go online and whinge about it afterwards.

That's only some of us. We're the "minority", remember?

da_mic_1530 · 29 Jul 2021 at 20:17

Delighted at the news. Haven't watched it in years, nothing to do with Jodie being a women, everything to do with the acting and scripts.

I remember when Matt Smith was announced, I complained, he ended up being my favourite doctor until again the scripts let him down.

The show has one more refresh of direction left in it before it needs to go off air and reboot in a few years

Dalandius · 29 Jul 2021 at 20:46

Only a 6 part series, that is a bit short. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

steve5424 · 29 Jul 2021 at 21:27

It's also a singular story across all episodes. Covid reasons apparently.

Also 2 seasonal specials to follow and 2 specials during 2022.

fez · 30 Jul 2021 at 08:50

Not sure there is anything to celebrate in this. BBC will just replace Chibbers and Jodie with similar choices. The BBC hasn't prioritised making good TV in a long time. Its been about quotas, representation and inclusivity for god knows how long. When you are so ideologically driven you never back down or admit that you were wrong, you just double down on what you are doing because "its the right thing to do".

DrToffnar · 30 Jul 2021 at 09:12

Ehhh, the scale of good to bad is as much the same as it's ever been. The sheer scope of programming produced by them pretty much guarantees they'll never be any level of consistency to it. Regardless, it's Dr Who. They're hardly going to bring Aaron Sorkin and Mark Rylance to helm what's been a pretty leaky ship for a while now. Who would want the job now anyway? The show's crap, but the fan backlash in some areas has been disgusting. I wouldn't want anything to do with it personally.

ivrytwr3 · 30 Jul 2021 at 09:24

JW has been the worst Doctor to date - crap acting, crap scripts and crap locations.

However, as a DW fan, i have watched every episode and felt sick after everyone

Good riddance to JW and CC and hopefully the crap 'Fam'.

Fingers crossed for better, new seasons and less Wokeness across ~~space and time~~ Sheffield.

fez · 30 Jul 2021 at 15:55

DrToffnar said:
Ehhh, the scale of good to bad is as much the same as it's ever been. The sheer scope of programming produced by them pretty much guarantees they'll never be any level of consistency to it. Regardless, it's Dr Who. They're hardly going to bring Aaron Sorkin and Mark Rylance to helm what's been a pretty leaky ship for a while now. Who would want the job now anyway? The show's crap, but the fan backlash in some areas has been disgusting. I wouldn't want anything to do with it personally.

Theres nothing wrong with the show, much like there isn't anything wrong with the source material for 90% of the shows that have been subjected to agenda driven casting, writing and directing. There will always be a minority of people who don't like whatever you do. If they cast a straight white doctor now there would be a group who hate it because its not "progressive" and they thought it was moving in the right direction. There will be others who simply don't like the stories or have unreasonable expectations. When a large enough group are vocal in their dislike for something though then you have to start paying attention. Well, I say you have to start paying attention. You can either take criticism like a mature adult or you can double down and surround yourself with people who tell you that anyone who doesn't love what you are doing is a "hater".

Star wars is a good example. The last 3 films were trash. The mandalorian was good. Apparently the animated stuff is good. Some people don't like the mandalorian but the vast majority seem to. Either way, its not a trash IP, its completely down to who has control of it and what they do. Doctor Who is the same. Its got to be one of the least constrained shows out there with what they could possibly do so its not hard to imagine that with the right team it could become good again.

DrToffnar · 30 Jul 2021 at 16:10

Yeah for sure, I'm referring more to the last season more so then any other, though I personally haven't rated it since Tennant left.

Regardless, I don't have any issue with the casting whatsoever, nor whatever agenda may be enforcing it, but that's a whole other topic. What I do have an issue with is the complete lack of creative support the BBC has seemingly given the writing team. It's pathetic really. There needs to be a tried and tested writing and production team to help win some of the more cynical fans back on side but instead they've sent them all out to the wolves with some of the worst screenplays in TV Sci Fi history.
Star Wars is a great comparison as I'd make the same argument. If you want to smoke people out of cultural apathy then you need to do it with good writing first, everything else is secondary. You can't give them any excuse. A well written story will fill any amount of gaps in.

ivrytwr3 · 30 Jul 2021 at 16:31

steve5424 · 30 Jul 2021 at 17:25

I've seen that Steven Moffat wished Chibs and JW the best of luck on insta, but unfortunately spoiled the big bad of the series, only to then get a reply from RTD telling him off for spoilers, lmao.

Reality|Bites · 31 Jul 2021 at 00:18

Steve do you know you're doing it or does it come naturally?

steve5424 · 31 Jul 2021 at 09:45

Doing what exactly???

JRS · 31 Jul 2021 at 15:31

This amused me, given that I've had similar conversations regarding Star Trek:

Alan McWhan on the twitters said:
“#DoctorWho has gone woke!” What, the Doctor Who whose very first story literally said “we’re all stronger if we work together”? The Doctor Who whose second story literally said “pacifism is a wonderful ideal… but you’ve gotta keep punching Nazis to get there”?

The #DoctorWho whose MVP for the first two seasons was a female, middle aged History teacher at a bog standard British school, who absolutely irrefutably taught The Doctor we know today the moral code by which the character lives?

The Doctor Who that was railing against profiteering business interests that were destroying the planet by the time its second season started, in 1964? The #DoctorWho that was giving a disproportionate number of roles to ...

...French, German, Belgian, and other non-British characters by 1967, including some of the first speaking parts for non-white actors in the history of British television? The #DoctorWho that was putting feminism and equality front and centre by the time it introduced...

...astrophysicist Zoe Herriot by 1969, multiple degree holding Cambridge graduate Liz Shaw by 1970, and gutsy investigative journalist Sarah-Jane Smith by 1974? The Doctor Who that was raising the issue of global warming by 1968? The Doctor Who that was warning about...

non-biodegradable plastics before most people were even aware of the existence of plastics? THAT Doctor Who has “gone woke”?! Behave. Doctor Who had already taught me about global warming, corporate greed, over-zealous tax regimes, sexism, fascism and SO much more...

...by the time I left primary school in 1982 that any accusations of “wokism” by card-carrying right wing ********* like Kelvin MacKenzie 40 years later result in little more than a roll of the eyes and a disparaging, “Have you ever actually WATCHED #DoctorWho?”

McPhee · 31 Jul 2021 at 15:40

Time for the show to have a rest I think. Maybe five years followed by a soft reboot? Would do it the world of good.

Mr Badger · 6 Aug 2021 at 16:09

The smart money is on Peter Capaldi emerging from the Tardis shower and the last few seasons all being just a dream...

fez · 6 Aug 2021 at 17:39

Mr Badger said:
The smart money is on Peter Capaldi emerging from the Tardis shower and the last few seasons all being just a dream...

The smart money is on the BBC doubling down on all the things that people have complained about until the show slowly bleeds out and is retired for another X years. Thats part of being woke, you never back down and you never admit defeat. If people don't like your message that just means you are making them uncomfortable and if you are making them uncomfortable you are doing something right. Its quite amazing the mental gymnastics that can be done to avoid the simple conclusion that what they are doing doesn't make for good TV.

Steampunk · 6 Aug 2021 at 19:14

fez said:
The smart money is on the BBC doubling down on all the things that people have complained about until the show slowly bleeds out and is retired for another X years. Thats part of being woke, you never back down and you never admit defeat. If people don't like your message that just means you are making them uncomfortable and if you are making them uncomfortable you are doing something right. Its quite amazing the mental gymnastics that can be done to avoid the simple conclusion that what they are doing doesn't make for good TV.

It's not about making good TV, it's about using the show as a platform for your idealogical messaging.