Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? Part 2 - New Poll **Spoilers**
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
- Status
)
Well it won't come from you eh..Jeez
No answer then? Can't answer what I said (because it's true)?
What you talking about mate? I've said it a billion times. It's like hitting your head against a brick wall though. Out of interest, how many games you been to this year at OT?
You seem very keen to defend him but can't provide any reasons for doing so, then you just resort to calling people clueless, or whatever.
What relevance does this have?
Booyakashaaaa!!!
Same here, my vote hasnt changed since the last poll.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 58,054
- Location
- Surrey
Trusty has to be either Moyes, his mum or someone who wants to sleep with him surely?
I mentioned in the previous thread that tonight and the game against City are huge for Moyes. If Utd perform badly and lose those 2 games then I can't see how he can lift the side for the remaining games with nothing to play for. And if Utd's season ends in a whimper and they finish 20+ points off the lead, it could make things a lot harder in the summer. Attracting players without CL footie is hard enough without a huge negative feeling around the club and manager and I think if it got to that, I don't think Utd would have a choice but to sack him.
I really don't see why its such a big deal to sack him either. If we were complete idiots and gave him a 6 year deal without performance related get out clauses then we have to pay him off but who cares. Getting into the CL is worth more in one season just on prize money alone than he will be getting for those 6 years.
We tried an untested manager who had never given any real indication that he had what it took to manage United. Everton never played great football and Moyes was never top of many peoples list. People had a romantic notion that another homegrown manager would take over and that we might have a few issues but would emerge the other side with a great manager and a top squad. He has shown himself to be inept and not up to the job so we should cut our losses as soon as possible and start looking for a replacement with a proven track record.
Yes it would be nice to get a world class manager in who would stay with us for 20 years but they are almost like a unicorn. A lot of top managers want to test themselves in different leagues and with different teams. I never thought Pep would leave Barca a few years ago but he wanted a new challenge.
A football club is judged on success and the quality of their football. With Moyes at the helm we don't look like delivering on either of those fronts.
Seriously, what is the point of buying talented skilful players then asking them to play in the way Moyes has this season. Look at the teams in the league that have had their style of play changed by a good manager without a huge change in personnel. If we don't bite the bullet and get rid of him soon then I can see many years of poor football, wasted money and no trophies.
We tried an untested manager who had never given any real indication that he had what it took to manage United. Everton never played great football and Moyes was never top of many peoples list. People had a romantic notion that another homegrown manager would take over and that we might have a few issues but would emerge the other side with a great manager and a top squad. He has shown himself to be inept and not up to the job so we should cut our losses as soon as possible and start looking for a replacement with a proven track record.
Yes it would be nice to get a world class manager in who would stay with us for 20 years but they are almost like a unicorn. A lot of top managers want to test themselves in different leagues and with different teams. I never thought Pep would leave Barca a few years ago but he wanted a new challenge.
A football club is judged on success and the quality of their football. With Moyes at the helm we don't look like delivering on either of those fronts.
Seriously, what is the point of buying talented skilful players then asking them to play in the way Moyes has this season. Look at the teams in the league that have had their style of play changed by a good manager without a huge change in personnel. If we don't bite the bullet and get rid of him soon then I can see many years of poor football, wasted money and no trophies.
Rival supporter and, much as I'd like to see him stay, it's getting painful now. Got to go.
^^ The thing is Fez, I don't believe that your players are as good as you believe. In certain positions you have fantastic footballers, but your central defence and midfield is woeful. Most mid-table teams have better central midfield pairings than Carrick and Fellaini. That's got to be rectified.
I'm not saying that that's an excuse for Moyes as you should be doing better than you are - considerably better - but your style of play will not get significantly better until the midfield problem is rectified. It was poor in Fergie's last couple of seasons.
^^ The thing is Fez, I don't believe that your players are as good as you believe. In certain positions you have fantastic footballers, but your central defence and midfield is woeful. Most mid-table teams have better central midfield pairings than Carrick and Fellaini. That's got to be rectified.
I'm not saying that that's an excuse for Moyes as you should be doing better than you are - considerably better - but your style of play will not get significantly better until the midfield problem is rectified. It was poor in Fergie's last couple of seasons.
I understand how poor we are in places but that is no excuse for the lack of fight, organisation or work rate. A top manager will know where he has a weakness and compensate for that. He will play to his sides strengths rather than expect their weaknesses to disappear overnight.
Why did he persist with Young and Valencia for so many games when they were both appalling. Why are his tactics so obvious and easily countered by opposition managers.
Everything Moyes has shown us is painting a picture of a man who is in over his head and who doesn't have the support of his player or the tactical chops to lead United.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
In general the crux of most teams is the central midfield pairing. If you know you're leaving I think it's absolutely fair to hold off a couple years and leave the cash/decision up to the new manager. If you buy a central midfield pair one year then leave, a new manager in most situations will be stuck with that central midfield pair for the next 4 years.
The problem was Moyes tried to get a completely unavailable target as his main guy, and a completely unqualified not good enough midfielder to partner him with.
Fabregas/Fellaini would have been 50% of a good partnership but he wasn't available.
If Utd had bought in summer a top notch creative central midfielder, one who can play midfield, who can defend, tackle and has some strength, and a proper defensive midfielder, Utd wouldn't be in the position they are in right now.
Carrick for 5+ years hasn't been good enough. Many pundits highlighted how little Carrick did defensively, players can jog, hell WALK past Carrick with nothing. He has no strength, awful positioning, poor tackling, no pace at all. He just kind of stands around watching play happen, he is truly awful and no idea why anyone remotely thinks he's capable.
That wouldn't fix Utd's problems all told, longer term replacements. But the club has required a new central midfield pair for 3-4 years, the money was in the bank waiting to be spent, a manager was appointed and frankly the most important job he had to do, the thing that would make or break his time at Utd was to establish a new central midfield partnership to take Utd on for the next 5-10 years. He failed miserably, I think he/others have made the excuse that he expected to spend 6-12 months with the team to establish where the problems were.
If you need 6 months to realise Carrick/Cleverley weren't the answer you shouldn't be in football. All the more embarrassing was that Moyes tried to buy Fabregas/Fellaini throughout the summer... so the excuse he needed time doesn't hold, he tried to do his main job straight away.
However I pointed out at the time, Moyes was making quotes(paraphrased but VERY close) along the lines of "it's utd, there is no budget, and everyone wants to sign for us, you just pick and choose here". He had this seeming idea that Utd was easy street and he'd done a harder job where no one wanted to join everton but tell Fabregas he's wanted and he'd come a running.
He over estimates how good Fellaini is, (without descending into it again please people) Fellaini should have conceded a penalty in the opening minutes against Liverpool. He is always chasing the game, rarely ahead of it, he's a huge clumsy oaf and no where near good enough to be a DM at a top half of the table club let alone top 6. He looked at his best(which wasn't brilliant) as a lone striker in the early months of last season and looked worse as he was played deeper throughout the year.
Ultimately that he went for the completely 100% unavailable Fabregas, and did buy the absolutely 100% not good enough Fellaini suggests he isn't the right man for the job, amongst his many many other failings those two things stick out.
The problem was Moyes tried to get a completely unavailable target as his main guy, and a completely unqualified not good enough midfielder to partner him with.
Fabregas/Fellaini would have been 50% of a good partnership but he wasn't available.
If Utd had bought in summer a top notch creative central midfielder, one who can play midfield, who can defend, tackle and has some strength, and a proper defensive midfielder, Utd wouldn't be in the position they are in right now.
Carrick for 5+ years hasn't been good enough. Many pundits highlighted how little Carrick did defensively, players can jog, hell WALK past Carrick with nothing. He has no strength, awful positioning, poor tackling, no pace at all. He just kind of stands around watching play happen, he is truly awful and no idea why anyone remotely thinks he's capable.
That wouldn't fix Utd's problems all told, longer term replacements. But the club has required a new central midfield pair for 3-4 years, the money was in the bank waiting to be spent, a manager was appointed and frankly the most important job he had to do, the thing that would make or break his time at Utd was to establish a new central midfield partnership to take Utd on for the next 5-10 years. He failed miserably, I think he/others have made the excuse that he expected to spend 6-12 months with the team to establish where the problems were.
If you need 6 months to realise Carrick/Cleverley weren't the answer you shouldn't be in football. All the more embarrassing was that Moyes tried to buy Fabregas/Fellaini throughout the summer... so the excuse he needed time doesn't hold, he tried to do his main job straight away.
However I pointed out at the time, Moyes was making quotes(paraphrased but VERY close) along the lines of "it's utd, there is no budget, and everyone wants to sign for us, you just pick and choose here". He had this seeming idea that Utd was easy street and he'd done a harder job where no one wanted to join everton but tell Fabregas he's wanted and he'd come a running.
He over estimates how good Fellaini is, (without descending into it again please people) Fellaini should have conceded a penalty in the opening minutes against Liverpool. He is always chasing the game, rarely ahead of it, he's a huge clumsy oaf and no where near good enough to be a DM at a top half of the table club let alone top 6. He looked at his best(which wasn't brilliant) as a lone striker in the early months of last season and looked worse as he was played deeper throughout the year.
Ultimately that he went for the completely 100% unavailable Fabregas, and did buy the absolutely 100% not good enough Fellaini suggests he isn't the right man for the job, amongst his many many other failings those two things stick out.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
Thing is I could have told you 3 years ago that Carrick and cleverly were no good. In fact I did often and got called a pessimist or worse by those blinkered by some wins.
Given that people are now saying to sell rvp too...how quickly and fickle you all remain. Wasn't there a guy on here with rvp in his signature? Lol. He was a fix to a problem we didn't have where money should have been invested elsewhere and more wisely. Sadly it was not. And now we are where we are.
Given that people are now saying to sell rvp too...how quickly and fickle you all remain. Wasn't there a guy on here with rvp in his signature? Lol. He was a fix to a problem we didn't have where money should have been invested elsewhere and more wisely. Sadly it was not. And now we are where we are.
It's taggarts fault their squad is rubbish though.
Anderson, cleverly, jones, young, an unused kagawa, rafael.
All rubbish for one reason or another, and in the last 5 years think of the truly world class central midfielders, wingers and defenders have moved.
No-one could've put right everything that was handed to Moyes (though he has still under performed).
Anderson, cleverly, jones, young, an unused kagawa, rafael.
All rubbish for one reason or another, and in the last 5 years think of the truly world class central midfielders, wingers and defenders have moved.
No-one could've put right everything that was handed to Moyes (though he has still under performed).
RvP is a fabulous player, he's just not playing for Moyes, sadly. It's not all about pace as you seem to think.
As for the squad, yes, it isn't good enough, but it also has some strengths and Moyes can't get the best out of anyone. If it was really as bad as some people suggest, it wouldn't have done well last season, it doesn't go downhill overnight - but the manager can.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2584341/David-Moyes-banner-The-Chosen-One.html
Imagine if this gets ripped down!
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2005
- Posts
- 13,001
Man utds history is dictating what they do. They are not the sacking club and they use the experience of sir alex nearly being sacked back in the 80s as an example of why they should stick with managers.
Unfortunately that was the 80s and football is much different now on and off the pitch. Man utd falling this far behind is much more of a deal i think in the modern game thab it was back in the day. Money, players, champions league, profile, marketing etc
Unfortunately that was the 80s and football is much different now on and off the pitch. Man utd falling this far behind is much more of a deal i think in the modern game thab it was back in the day. Money, players, champions league, profile, marketing etc
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Oct 2010
- Posts
- 3,053
- Location
- ireland
Agree with everything DM said, Moyes just expected every player he wanted to immediately put down everything they were doing and sign for United. Also the Fellaini signing was a disaster, a lot of people couldn't really tell u what he does to make him worth £20 million +.
Ye It's clear as day RvP is not settled under Moyes, same goes for the rest of the squad now i said it against Olympiakos and Liverpool u can clearly see Moyes has lost the dressing room now and it's only a matter of time before Moyes gets shipped out or the club stick by him and he makes whole sale changes to the whole squad.
I believe the former will happen but i could be wrong and hopefully i am and the board backs Moyes so he will do even more damage to United
Ye It's clear as day RvP is not settled under Moyes, same goes for the rest of the squad now i said it against Olympiakos and Liverpool u can clearly see Moyes has lost the dressing room now and it's only a matter of time before Moyes gets shipped out or the club stick by him and he makes whole sale changes to the whole squad.
I believe the former will happen but i could be wrong and hopefully i am and the board backs Moyes so he will do even more damage to United
- Status