Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? **Spoilers**

MoyesIN or MoyesOUT?

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I was prepared to give him the season but things are going from bad to worse, the results didn't bother me but the fact that the players look disinterested is worrying.

I also don't post much in here now which is probably why you haven't seen anything.
 
Yeah I agree with what you are saying about the 10 years comments Frank. There's a huge difference commercially between Liverpool and United. Also Liverpool finished below Everton last year and now look at them. No reason to suggest United with investment and even a new manager cannot do the same. Far too many pundits seem to be revelling in this and having an axe to grind. Only a complete fool would suggest United won't win the league again in 10 years.

RVP said he wants a new deal, is happy with the manager and very happy with the coaching. Yet no one on here wants to talk about that but they fell about themselves when someone with no inside knowledge said otherwise.

Moyes should go, he's had more chances than he would anywhere else but I do think people have been so selective in what they bring up. If he's lost the dressing room he's only lost it to the players who aren't worthy of pulling on an everton shirt let alone one at the most successful side in the league.

Some of the laughable fans on the radio today suggesting United should have done what Liverpool do and promote from within and give a neville/scholes or giggs a chance. None of those were leaders on the pitch and the united ones that were leaders have all been crap managers.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Yeah I agree with what you are saying about the 10 years comments Frank. There's a huge difference commercially between Liverpool and United. Also Liverpool finished below Everton last year and now look at them. No reason to suggest United with investment and even a new manager cannot do the same. Far too many pundits seem to be revelling in this and having an axe to grind. Only a complete fool would suggest United won't win the league again in 10 years.

RVP said he wants a new deal, is happy with the manager and very happy with the coaching. Yet no one on here wants to talk about that but they fell about themselves when someone with no inside knowledge said otherwise.
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Completely agree. While we're having a rough time at the moment, the infrastructure is there to once again make us a competitive team. It might not even take long at all. I'm not worried long term, but Moyes shouldn't be our long term manager. The next manager will have a much easier time, as expectations are about as low as they could be. Maybe this is why Moyes was appointed... but that's cynical.

I was happy RVP said what he did, but his body language and form on the pitch isn't good. Then again, everyone is playing badly and looks miserable.

It's also strange to think we're the current league champions as well. :o
 
dannyjo22 said:
Yeah I agree with what you are saying about the 10 years comments Frank. There's a huge difference commercially between Liverpool and United. Also Liverpool finished below Everton last year and now look at them. No reason to suggest United with investment and even a new manager cannot do the same. Far too many pundits seem to be revelling in this and having an axe to grind. Only a complete fool would suggest United won't win the league again in 10 years.
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I agree, it's a complete overreaction. The club could easily win the league next season. The real question-marks remain around Moyes and attracting the right players at a sensible price.

I don't think it's an understatement to say the majority of a new first 11 is needed over the summer.

It's going to be expensive, and not the sort of thing you'd want to get wrong. Spending £100-200m might not buy much without CL football. Especially with so many "rich" clubs in the market, and the usual post world cup transfer frenzy.

It's a position the club are unfamiliar with and a huge amount of pressure. Next season will very important if they hope to carry any of the Ferguson era momentum into the clubs future.
 
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Robbo said:
Completely agree. While we're having a rough time at the moment, the infrastructure is there to once again make us a competitive team. It might not even take long at all. I'm not worried long term, but Moyes shouldn't be our long term manager. The next manager will have a much easier time, as expectations are about as low as they could be. Maybe this is why Moyes was appointed... but that's cynical.

I was happy RVP said what he did, but his body language and form on the pitch isn't good. Then again, everyone is playing badly and looks miserable.

It's also strange to think we're the current league champions as well. :o
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Should have appointed Morinho
 
Robbo said:
Maybe this is why Moyes was appointed... but that's cynical.
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Nope look through all the old threads on Fergies successor, I said that is exactly what would happen. He would be hired as a cheap fall guy as whoever came in next would not be able to win as much. Fergie got away with so much with the players because of who he was, few have the power to do the same if anyone at all.

jonneymendoza said:
Should have appointed Morinho
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So should Arsenal and a host of other clubs. Chelsea should never have got rid of him the last time.
 
Fabio Capello would probably do what Fergie used to do and get away with it.
That guy has a huge ego and a track record to back it up.

I dont buy the "transition" theory (ie. we need 10 years to be successful again).
Many clubs, change managers and continue winning or being successful.

Pelligrini arrived at Man City, and they are competing for the title.
Mourinho arrived at Chelsea at the same time and they are competing for the title.
Bayern got a new manager - again no transition.

I could go on.

If Mourinho were hired, he wouldnt need 5-10 yrs to make a championship winning team. He'd get us high in the league, immediately. And with his ego, if he was taking over the title winning team, he'd probably feel that finishing 2nd or below would be complete failure. Anything can Fergie can do, he can do.

The job of a manager is to get the best out of his players and make the best use of the resources available to him.

Moyes has incredible resources and simply isnt getting the most out of these resources (including his players).

Its crazy to think that he bought Mata, when his intention was to focus on playing down the flanks and crossing the ball. If this is your strategy, then you should buy fast wingers who can cross the ball accurately. In addition, buy 1 or 2 tall players (like Crouch), who are powerful at heading.

When you have Mata, Rooney and RvP, you need to play it through the middle. Surely Moyes understands this?

If Moyes were to buy Messi, he'd probably still try and play the ball up through the wingers and cross the ball in.

There is no point sacking him yet. Man Utd should see the whole season through then replace him in the Summer AFTER they have signed a replacement.
 
The point is Moyes doesn't know that. That's why all the talk about the players we can or can't attract in the summer seems irrelevant. We could buy 3 top tier players and I still think Moyes would misuse them. This is the main reason he has to go.
 
Problems at Man Utd run deep. None of this is Moyes fault. Ferguson has been papering cracks for years now... all short term fixes, he's allowed the average age to get too high and the youngsters he's bought over the last few years, Smalling, Jones, the Da Silvas and the ones he's brought through aren't of the required standard.

Key positions are filled by players in long-term decline, worn out and not up for the fight for one reason or another, the club captain has already signed a Bosman.

None of that is Moyes fault. What is his fault is his arrogance that he could turn it around enough in one season enough to get top 4. There's not a manager in the world who'd get that squad top 4 - and I include Mourinho in that, other than Ferguson, and he'd have only managed it though sheer determination and with the tools he's built over the last 25 years, his influence over refs, the media and the FA. Again, papering over bigger and ever widening cracks.

van Persie wants out, that's obvious to anyone who can see past their own nose. Though I'm sure, like Rooney, would be happy to stay if he gets a massive pay-rise. Those two and De Gea are the only players worth keeping bar the squad filler. But paying them 6/7/800k a week between them is surely unsustainable? Even for Man Utd.

Again, none of that is Moyes fault. He's inherited that situation. As will any other manager when Moyes gets fired.

Anyone who thinks the Glazers will fork out £200/300m (and then some unless whoever spends that gets very lucky) on a new team (which is what it needs) is living in cuckoo land.
 
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It is actually staggering how quickly the Manchester United decline has happened, while no doubt players share some blame, the manager really is reaching the point of no return.

Manchester United's squad is poor, weak and terrible in places. Playing systems that are mismatched and unbalanced, naïve and inexcusably poor tactically. Players looking unmotivated, dishearten, uninterested, being played out of position and lacking a basic work ethic.

The sweeping changes to the coaching staff can not have helped the situation.

I think it is abundantly clear that Moyes is out of his depth, I initially thought Moyes would be a safe option, in the sense of keeping the club ticking over (for lack of a better term) in the short term (~2/3 seasons), while the club looked for a new identity post Fergerson.

I think the problems that Manchester United have had, have been papered over for a few seasons with Fergerson (for a number of different reasons) and it is only now that the cracks are open for all to see.

The entire squad needs considerable rebuilding, investment and needs to develop a new identity / ethos, Moyes, it is becoming staggeringly clear is not the man to do this.

There is little to achieve with removing a manager so close to the end of the season, however things do have the potential to get worse for Manchester United.
 
inogen said:
Problems at Man Utd run deep. None of this is Moyes fault. Ferguson has been papering cracks for years now... all short term fixes, he's allowed the average age to get too high and the youngsters he's bought over the last few years, Smalling, Jones, the Da Silvas and the ones he's brought through aren't of the required standard.

Key positions are filled by players in long-term decline, worn out and not up for the fight for one reason or another, the club captain has already signed a Bosman.

None of that is Moyes fault. What is his fault is his arrogance that he could turn it around enough in one season enough to get top 4. There's not a manager in the world who'd get that squad top 4 - and I include Mourinho in that, other than Ferguson, and he'd have only managed it though sheer determination and with the tools he's built over the last 25 years, his influence over refs, the media and the FA.

van Persie wants out, that's obvious to anyone who can see past their own nose. Though I'm sure, like Rooney, would be happy to stay if he gets a massive pay-rise. Those two are the only two players worth keeping bar the squad filler. But paying them 5/600k a week between them is surely unsustainable? Even for Man Utd.

Again, none of that is Moyes fault. He's inherited that situation. As will any other manager when Moyes gets fired.

Anyone who thinks the Glazers will fork out £200/300m on a new team (which is what it needs) is living in cuckoo land.
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There are plenty of problems, many of which are Moyes' fault, but they aren't nearly as bad as you're implying. No manager could get top four with the current squad? I beg to differ. £200m+ is what would be required to get a team that competes with Bayern and Real Madrid. Nobody is expecting that, at least not short term. With the right manager and the right funding, we can easily assemble a team that can compete with Arsenal and now Liverpool - no problems. Man City and Chelsea could be another matter if they spend as they can.

Sure, some rebuilding needs to be done and this is well documented, but that's just something we'll have to get on with. Most people on here and in general thought we'd get top four, absolutely no question at the start of the season. A squad so obviously in decline couldn't have evaded everyone, surely.

Then again, you are a Liverpool fan if I'm not mistaken, so you're bound to be fighting Moyes' corner. :p

Anyway, this is interesting (and pretty bad for Moyes):

Everton academy coach Kevin Sheedy has criticised Manchester United manager David Moyes for his tactics.

Sheedy, who coaches the Everton under-18 side, worked under former Toffees boss Moyes at Goodison Park.

After United's 3-0 defeat by Liverpool on Sunday, Sheedy tweeted: "All of you out there, Moyes was never interested in our youth team or players."

Sheedy also criticised Moyes's tactics, adding: "Punt the ball up to [Marouane] Fellaini - great viewing."

Moyes was Everton manager for 11 years from 2002 until last summer, when he left to replace Sir Alex Ferguson at Old Trafford.

Under Moyes's replacement Roberto Martinez, Everton are three points ahead of United in sixth place.

Sheedy, 54, said: "We now have a manager who wants to win games."
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http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26614180

Rough.
 
sunama is spot on, the basic idea when appointing a new manager is to pick someone who is capable of succeeding with the players who are already there.

It's ridiculous that Moyes is being afforded the opportunity to tear apart a highly successful group of players and replace them with his own, spending £150m+ in the process with no guarantee of his rebuilding being for the better.

It is as though everyone in charge at Old Trafford are absolutely convinced on a religious level that Moyes is the man to take them forward and they are willing to risk and sacrifice anything (including the clubs future success/stature) for him to succeed. Foolishness.

It's also silly the way Man Utd and their fans are throwing around the "we are a club that gives managers time" line, as though sacking failing managers is something to be sneered at. Would you honestly prefer to have Moyes safe in his job for 5 years and win nothing, rather than have 3 different managers in the same time frame and win multiple trophies/titles?

The reason why 99% of clubs sack their managers every year is because they've never had a manager of the calibre of Ferguson and those in charge at Old Trafford need to realise that they are unlikely to get one now either, picking a lump of coal and giving it time with the hope of it turning into a diamond is fantasy land stuff.
 
Robbo said:
There are plenty of problems, many of which are Moyes' fault, but they aren't nearly as bad as you're implying. No manager could get top four with the current squad? I beg to differ. £200m+ is what would be required to get a team that competes with Bayern and Real Madrid. Nobody is expecting that, at least not short term. With the right manager and the right funding, we can easily assemble a team that can compete with Arsenal and now Liverpool - no problems. Man City and Chelsea could be another matter if they spend as they can.

Sure, some rebuilding needs to be done and this is well documented, but that's just something we'll have to get on with. Most people on here and in general thought we'd get top four, absolutely no question at the start of the season. A squad so obviously in decline couldn't have evaded everyone, surely.

Then again, you are a Liverpool fan if I'm not mistaken, so you're bound to be fighting Moyes' corner. :p

Anyway, this is interesting (and pretty bad for Moyes):



http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26614180

Rough.
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Yep, I am a Liverpool fan and have been predicting this for years. I predicted Moyes appointment years ago and said he'd get fired after a season after not getting top 4. All my Man U supporting mates thought I was taking the ****. Not to mention my Evertonian mates ;)

You won't win another major trophy 'till the Glazers leave. That's the long and short of it. It's all too eerily similar to Liverpool in 1990... We all underestimated how deep the problems ran too. All thought that managerial issues were more important than how the club was being run. It aint.
 
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inogen said:
Yep, I am a Liverpool fan and have been predicting this for years. I predicted Moyes appointment years ago and said he'd get fired after a season after not getting top 4. All my Man U supporting mates thought I was taking the ****. Not to mention my Evertonian mates ;)

You won't win another major trophy 'till the Glazers leave. That's the long and short of it. It's all too eerily similar to Liverpool in 1990... We all underestimated how deep the problems ran too. All thought that managerial issues were more important than how the club was being run. It aint.
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We'll soon find out, as the Glazers clearly need to allow some hefty spending. For all the bad they do, they haven't exactly been tight with the cash these last few years. Fergie has just spent some of it very poorly. Glazers aside though, Moyes' mistakes are there for all to see.

Now this stuff about dressing room bust-ups and that Everton coach having a pop at him won't help matters, especially as we're on the brink of being dumped out of Europe on Wednesday!
 
Trusty said:
Sheedy is putting the knife in i see. Not going to go down well that..
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Robbo said:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26614180

Rough.
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Bloody hell, that's upsetting. Sheedy was my boyhood hero over all others at everton. He's 54! I feel old :(

Sheedy could have an axe or grudge over something we will never know. If Sheedy was that upset he could have gone to work elsewhere. I would if the manager was showing such a lack of interest in the youth team.

Moyes to me seemed to over protect the young players as though he was scared another would get poached. Still that's one hell of a snub by an Everton legend publically.
 
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