Soldato
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Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? **Spoilers**
- Thread starter Robbo
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Thing is, I did (and still do) want Moyes to be successful at United. Managers don't grow on trees with accolades and results, they have to work their way up to do so.
I thought Moyes was ready to make that step up to being United manager - sadly he looks like he's so far out of his depth he's utterly drowning.
I'm glad we took the punt on him but I worry the owners are going to try so hard NOT to be City or Chelsea that they'll leave him at the helm even after it's clear he's lost it. I don't think now is the good time to wield the axe but if the right time comes they need to make sure it happens.
[Edit] Oh, and...
Terrible attention seeking. Banning a guy just to get best wishes
Happy Birthday barry
Busted
And thanks everybody.
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All this knowledge yet you still can't find a list of candidates to take over the job
Okay.
What did I expect? Well...
A team that is well organised and knows what it's doing. Instead we have the opposite.
A restriction on creative freedom, at the cost of being harder to break down, or similar.
He's far from a bad manager, Everton weren't great to watch but did get results, you would have expected some of the same for us, and then the fact we have better attacking players would have meant everything was nice and solid. Instead, we have Moyes looking massively out of his depth. Moyes was always a risk, we all knew that.
Totally agree except last year I thought he finally had us playing some decent football, except against the top 4 where he would shut up shop and park the bus Mourinho style but without the players to take the one or two chances they get in reply playing like that.
It makes me laugh reading posts about just wanting to play attractive football, then in the next breath Mourinho should have been manager. His football is about as exciting as Moyes only he does it with a far better calibre of player.
You may have won things with him but the football would have been dross. I suppose that's better than winning nothing and dross granted
It will be a Neville dream team, with Paul Scholes doing the press work.
And he wouldn't have fulfilled his ambitions so wouldn't be happy staying here now and building long term. I'll take winning the most honours in the last 10 years + having him back now any day
This. We're the most successful (Community Shields can't be counted IMO) in the last decade and no one ever seems to really face up to the fact that Abramovich has been cold blooded at times, but operations at Chelsea have run like clockwork apart from when we finished 6th....but we still got a brilliant double anyway
"Stability brings success" is less founded than "getting on with it brings success". I did struggle to keep faith after sacking Di Matteo, but i guess we did still win a Trophy....
Caporegime
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All this knowledge yet you still can't find a list of candidates to take over the job
It makes me laugh reading posts about just wanting to play attractive football, then in the next breath Mourinho should have been manager. His football is about as exciting as Moyes only he does it with a far better calibre of player.
You may have won things with him but the football would have been dross. I suppose that's better than winning nothing and dross granted
Mourinho may be overly defensive, but they wouldn't be losing to Stoke and the rest would they......
Okay, everyone loses the odd game and to rubbish teams, but Mourinho at Utd both would have made far far bigger changes in the summer, and Jan and wouldn't be playing as bad football as Utd are, defensive, possibly, but successful defensive football.
Don't forget that Chelsea in part let him go the first time because he played fairly dull football that wasn't exciting and he came exceptionally close to being fired from Real for the same reason. Towards the end of the first year and in the second year Real played not hugely better or massively more attacking football(because even when pushed to defend when he joined, it's still a attacking team). They went from sitting back and being crushed 5-0 against Barca to going semi all out attack on them for the next two years.
Mourinho has to some degree learned that boring football isn't what the best managers aim for, nor is it appreciated by the fans. Not the absolute best comparison but first season(i think) Chelsea had 7 1-0 wins by this point, this season they've won by that scoreline once.
In terms of a list of managers, lots have been suggested to you, but once again there is no list of available managers. As with players like Ronaldo, you don't really know if they'd take the job till someone asks them, someone who has the ability to add lots of zero's to a big fat cheque.
Is Klopp available, who knows, Utd could find out, I nor anyone else in this thread can. Your list of potential managers, is simply as long as the list of current managers + every player who could feasibly become a manager. Who is available would be known to a small group of people likely after asking an agent.
Guardiola for all you know hate's Bayern/Germany and would jump at the chance to prove himself by rebuilding a squad from the ground up. Suggesting managers is pretty pointless. You can know who is wrong for a job without knowing who is right for the job, these things aren't dependent on one another. People who often have no point always try the "what player/manager should they get". The information a club has, via themselves, their agents, and the team of scouts a club like Utd probably pays several million a year has different information than you or I, same goes for manager availability.
Why do you want someone to type out a list of every top 4 manager at every club in Europe, how does that change if Moyes is right for the job or not and why when people give you a list of names do you ignore it and keep asking that same daft question over and over like it means anything at all?
Caporegime
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This. We're the most successful (Community Shields can't be counted IMO) in the last decade and no one ever seems to really face up to the fact that Abramovich has been cold blooded at times, but operations at Chelsea have run like clockwork apart from when we finished 6th....but we still got a brilliant double anyway
"Stability brings success" is less founded than "getting on with it brings success". I did struggle to keep faith after sacking Di Matteo, but i guess we did still win a Trophy....
this and the "must give them time" lot ignore the multitude or teams that stick with managers for ages who just end up ruining clubs. It's a very silly idea that out of thousands of clubs literally a handful of successful long term managers can be named over the past several decades. Arsenal are one of the least successful teams in europe, 150mil wage budget and haven't won anything in 8 years. I doubt there is a single team in europe spending 80+mil a year that hasn't won at least one if not multiple titles(okay probably a couple weird ruski clubs that failed miserably, not sure of Anzhi managed to win anything before firing everyone).
So in England that is pretty much, Fergie.... you could give it to Wenger for his first 6-7 years in charge.. but sticking with him for 8 years has brought no success and if he fluffs up this year, which he looks like he's doing, it will be even longer.
Replacing managers has worked FAR more often than sticking with the same guy, in fairness it happens much more often... but maybe that should be a good sign.
People also fail to mention that Everton's tiny budget, was often above that of most of the people who finished below them. Villa were outspending them and were above them, but overspent, got in trouble, sold everyone, and dropped below everton. Not sure if they've dropped the wage bill below Everton. 60-70jmil wage budget is above most of those below them, not all, but most of the clubs with a bigger wage budget got themselves into stupid trouble with stupid spending. Of course Everton's debt came from smaller scale, but still silly spending and Moyes's ruining of strikers.
I suspect spending a billion pounds more than the competiton had a bit more to do with that than the merry-go-round style of personnel managementThis. We're the most successful (Community Shields can't be counted IMO) in the last decade and no one ever seems to really face up to the fact that Abramovich has been cold blooded at times, but operations at Chelsea have run like clockwork apart from when we finished 6th....but we still got a brilliant double anyway
"Stability brings success" is less founded than "getting on with it brings success". I did struggle to keep faith after sacking Di Matteo, but i guess we did still win a Trophy....
I suspect spending a billion pounds more than the competiton had a bit more to do with that than the merry-go-round style of personnel management
Of course, but we spent it right and did it right. Others have spent loads. l'pool, city, united and arsenal....oh and spurs. None executed like us.
Caporegime
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The growing conviction in other teams that Man U are absolutely beatable is probably the defining change between this year and last. Teams seem to actually be desparate to crush yet another league statistic and are really pumped up for games instead of being worried about facing the 'mighty' Man U. I think that David Moyes as manager is of far less concern than the fact that other teams actively want to go out there and give United a kicking - and it's working.
Keep him and give him time. Also, what gives with the personal insults? Seriously, grow up. If he turns out to be a dud, that doesn't justify having a personal pop at him.
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Chelsea have far far outspent Liverpool, united, arsenal and spurs over the years. They have achieved what you would expect them to achieve with amount of money spent.
Soldato
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When u see a tactical disciplined performance from Mourinho's Chelsea u really have to wonder how Moyes has not been sacked yet?
I expected United to get 3rd or 4th really did not expect them to drop off this much.
I expected United to get 3rd or 4th really did not expect them to drop off this much.
Man of Honour
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It's been a long time coming but you've been outed as a Man Utd fan - do birthdays get any better? Happy Birthday anyway, hope you've had a good one.
I'm not a Man Utd fan but I'd be in the needs to be given a bit more time group. He's got a difficult task and it's perfectly possible he just won't be up to it but I suspect any manager would struggle to impose themselves in a meaningful way on what has become an institution. Sir Alex managed there for longer than many of the posters in this thread have been alive, to make changes and influence things in the club will require time. I don't expect he will get a similar length of time to Ferguson to show what he can do, times have changed and the club is on a more solid footing (commercially if nothing else) but to give him a year or two probably isn't all that unreasonable.
If you look at football club dynasties then for the vast majority of them they've fallen away after their figurehead has gone - there are very few who have progressed or even maintained their position of pre-eminence after that point. I'm not saying that you have to like it, just that acknowledging the realities of the situation is probably a reasonable idea.
//edit I would point out that I don't think Moyes will ever offer the swashbuckling football that many Man Utd fans say they want so from that perspective he's possibly not the right appointment but I think given a bit of time and the right signings to address the deficits in the team he can do a reasonable job. It's also interesting seeing now that while many seemed to feel that Sir Alex was hopeless tactically before he's being appreciated a bit more now for getting more out of his team than the man who came after him - relatively speaking the benchmark has altered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19416223
I have to admit, I didn't realise Liverpool had spent so much.
Caporegime
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Happy birthday SpaZ
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