Soldato
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On the plus side, if Moyes does stay for two years he will wipe 1-2 billion off the value of the club, maybe someone will purchase it then who won't use it as a cash cow.
Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? **Spoilers**
- Thread starter Robbo
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If he stays for 4 years I'll be able to buy it.
I am split down the middle.
On the one hand, the results just haven't been good enough and Moyes should go. However, this is beginning to look like the post-Busby years; an aging team lead by a great manager who then retires leaving his successor with two problems, how to get results and also to improve a significant amount of the team. This team has needed a steady influx of players for the past few seasons, Fergie failed ManU just as Busby did years ago, they showed too much loyalty to an aging group of players.
Whoever is the manager for the next two or three seasons will be on a hiding to nothing, especially from fans who've known nothing but success.
On the one hand, the results just haven't been good enough and Moyes should go. However, this is beginning to look like the post-Busby years; an aging team lead by a great manager who then retires leaving his successor with two problems, how to get results and also to improve a significant amount of the team. This team has needed a steady influx of players for the past few seasons, Fergie failed ManU just as Busby did years ago, they showed too much loyalty to an aging group of players.
Whoever is the manager for the next two or three seasons will be on a hiding to nothing, especially from fans who've known nothing but success.
Caporegime
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in this regard you can't separate size from quality... because it tries to justify your daft post?
Arsenal have a squad depth afforded by price that teams with less than half the budget can't match, simple as that. The fact that Wenger completely wastes this money is something I say constantly, I'd like to see you quote me saying anything other than this from the past 8 years.
Regardless of what you think, Dortmund prioritised the league and sacked off the CL then after a couple league titles they reversed this, being way worse in the league and FAR better in the champs league. Arsenal do not do this, Bayern do not do this, Chelsea, Utd, Real, Barca do not do this.
You even managed to screw it up yourself by saying Arsenal haven't proven they have the squad to chase the title, yes they have, win it, no but chase it, yes. Chasing does not equal winning. I also pointed out that Arsenal are the least successful big spending team, which really doesn't imply I thought they would win the title.
A few years ago Arsenal had a wage bill of £143mil while Utd spent around £160mil and Spurs spent 80mil. We were drastically closer to Spurs than Utd, because Wenger pee's that money away on players he refuses to use or are constantly injured.
ARsenal have the capacity to chase a treble, just not the manager.
Very occasionally you will get a smaller budget team hit far above their weight, basically every time is a perfect storm, no key injuries, everyone in great form, ability to play same team game after game. Atletico are pretty much that team this year, 3 injuries and they'd drop like a stone, be smashed out of Europe and will probably never match this season in the next decade(without sugar daddy to increase spending). There is a reason Arsenal even with horrendous injury numbers way worse than the majority in the league still get 4th every year, still get into the knock out stage of the CL and often got to quarter finals, squad size.
Some simplified maths for you, call 20k a week 1mil a year(it's a tad more). 100k player costs 5mil a year, 200k player costs 10mil a year. 65mil budget.... how many 200k players, 6.5..... 150mil budget.... 15 players.
Anyone can have a one off brilliant season, sustained consistent finishing in the Cl positions in ANY league requires teams to be amongst the highest spending in the league. Higher spending = higher quality first team, more highest quality players, higher quality second string, higher quality everything. Arsenal have the financial clout to finish in the top 4 despite terrible numbers of injuries and without playing b teams in europe or cups...... how do you think they manage that, magic, or a 150mil budget?
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From my perspective I think part of the issue is, whoever took over from SAF was going to end up with a team that, with respect, over achieved last year - basically because of Van Persie - and needed rebuilding.
Moyes has failed to land the Man Utd 'marque' signings, and they look like a club that are still trying to replace key players.
When you look at their defence, you see 3 players immediately (Rio, Vidic, Evra) that are all coming to the end of their 'first on the team sheet, top flight, top quality' period, and I don't see that depth in quality coming through.
On paper, they do have some decent players (Rooney, RVP, Mata, De Gea, Kagawa, Zaha, etc) but they just don't have the depth of quality that they had a few years ago.
Personally, I think he needs to be given time. Any new manager taking over after someone who's been there over 20 years is going to need time to build his club. Moyes did very well at Everton with seemingly no money, so I think he probably needs until the end of next season before he can be seen to have had enough time.
The problem is, when Man Utd are sitting on the verge of being outside of European places, fans won't like that.
Moyes has failed to land the Man Utd 'marque' signings, and they look like a club that are still trying to replace key players.
When you look at their defence, you see 3 players immediately (Rio, Vidic, Evra) that are all coming to the end of their 'first on the team sheet, top flight, top quality' period, and I don't see that depth in quality coming through.
On paper, they do have some decent players (Rooney, RVP, Mata, De Gea, Kagawa, Zaha, etc) but they just don't have the depth of quality that they had a few years ago.
Personally, I think he needs to be given time. Any new manager taking over after someone who's been there over 20 years is going to need time to build his club. Moyes did very well at Everton with seemingly no money, so I think he probably needs until the end of next season before he can be seen to have had enough time.
The problem is, when Man Utd are sitting on the verge of being outside of European places, fans won't like that.
Rival Fan (Liverpool) , I say sack him, wrong man for the job.
I think Utd is a giant of football. One of Englands real superpowers, more so than Man City and Chelsea, those two might become superpowers but as yet do not have the history. Utd is a juggernaut of English football.
I just don't think Moyes is the right man, he just isn't big enough imo. Never was. When it was first announced I was surprised. I also actually don't think that his playing style really suits Utd or matches what is expected of them.
I truly do not think that Utd will make it to the top 4 this year and that will be quite a knock, not financially perhaps as Utd can take that hit, but a knock for the fans. Utd are a team who deserve to be in with Europes elite and to miss out on that for a year , or heaven forbid should it continue to next year miss out on it for a few years, would be devastating for the fans.
I think this season is a loss for Utd and as a rival Liverpool fan, I'd like to see them dispose of Moyes at the end of the season, say that he guided them through a transition or some other such "marketing" blurb, and appoint a big name manager instead for the summer , rebuild , and come back next year stronger. As I have always believed that English football is at its best with a strong Liverpool team and a strong Utd team (no offense to other teams, but the EPL without a strong Utd and Liverpool, is like a world cup without a strong Brazil and Germany, its just not as exciting)
I think Utd is a giant of football. One of Englands real superpowers, more so than Man City and Chelsea, those two might become superpowers but as yet do not have the history. Utd is a juggernaut of English football.
I just don't think Moyes is the right man, he just isn't big enough imo. Never was. When it was first announced I was surprised. I also actually don't think that his playing style really suits Utd or matches what is expected of them.
I truly do not think that Utd will make it to the top 4 this year and that will be quite a knock, not financially perhaps as Utd can take that hit, but a knock for the fans. Utd are a team who deserve to be in with Europes elite and to miss out on that for a year , or heaven forbid should it continue to next year miss out on it for a few years, would be devastating for the fans.
I think this season is a loss for Utd and as a rival Liverpool fan, I'd like to see them dispose of Moyes at the end of the season, say that he guided them through a transition or some other such "marketing" blurb, and appoint a big name manager instead for the summer , rebuild , and come back next year stronger. As I have always believed that English football is at its best with a strong Liverpool team and a strong Utd team (no offense to other teams, but the EPL without a strong Utd and Liverpool, is like a world cup without a strong Brazil and Germany, its just not as exciting)
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Man of Honour
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If only United had sacked Fergie before they won the FA cup in 1990.
Keep him. Things aren't that bad and there are more teams competing for CL ualify positions. Sometimes you need a reality check for motivation.
Keep him. Things aren't that bad and there are more teams competing for CL ualify positions. Sometimes you need a reality check for motivation.
Damn Mark Robins eh 
Fergie did have an element of luck in that Utd floating on the stock market and becoming the richest club in England helped them take advantage of the sky boom, they dont have the luxury of being able to blow anyone out the water when it comes to transfers now.
Fergie did have an element of luck in that Utd floating on the stock market and becoming the richest club in England helped them take advantage of the sky boom, they dont have the luxury of being able to blow anyone out the water when it comes to transfers now.
Damn Mark Robins eh
Fergie did have an element of luck in that Utd floating on the stock market and becoming the richest club in England helped them take advantage of the sky boom, they dont have the luxury of being able to blow anyone out the water when it comes to transfers now.
They didn't back then either, it was a PLC and every transfer had to be voted for.
Yeah how much was Knighton going to buy the club for? £20m or something like that, when they bought Webb for £1.5m.
Knighton must be gutted he didn't pull that off, I remember him doing keep ups or something before the game iirc?
Knighton must be gutted he didn't pull that off, I remember him doing keep ups or something before the game iirc?
Yeah it all fell through though as he didn't have the money iirc.
Soldato
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My tuppence.
Moyes isn't a bad manager, fergie ditched at the right time.
The man utd squad on a player by player basis is not far off their league position. SAF had them scraping results for a couple of years - whoever came in was going to have a massive job rebuilding, the only bad thing is that moyes didn't really start that in the summer - should have a mass clear out and brought in some quality - the injuries they've had have taken a lot of the quality from the starting 11 and he hasn't been able to get them scrapping for results, I think he should be give at least another season and a decent budget in the summer
Moyes isn't a bad manager, fergie ditched at the right time.
The man utd squad on a player by player basis is not far off their league position. SAF had them scraping results for a couple of years - whoever came in was going to have a massive job rebuilding, the only bad thing is that moyes didn't really start that in the summer - should have a mass clear out and brought in some quality - the injuries they've had have taken a lot of the quality from the starting 11 and he hasn't been able to get them scrapping for results, I think he should be give at least another season and a decent budget in the summer
well done for completely ignoring the fact that you mentioned TREBLE chasing in your original post - which finishing 4th 15 or so points or so off the top spot definitely isnt even title chasing let alone treble.
How much Arsenal are spending on wages is completely irrelevant (to your original point of "treble chasing") if the quality of the squad isnt there to sustain the challange over three different competitions until the semi's /finals / last couple of league games in April/ May.
Damn Mark Robins eh
Fergie did have an element of luck in that Utd floating on the stock market and becoming the richest club in England helped them take advantage of the sky boom, they dont have the luxury of being able to blow anyone out the water when it comes to transfers now.
Given the Chevy shirt deal (@£57m/season) starting 14/15 and the Nike deal probably about to be announced - Nike appear to be the most likely of the big four - for anywhere between £350m for 5 years and ~£700m for the next ten years - I would seriously hope that the Glazers agree to pay off the £300m~ of debts very quickly. This isnt even considering the other (media / sponsor) money coming in.
I think its been a Board choice not to pay extreme wages / transfers (especially when connected with high agent fees) but in the medium time frame I think this will have to change to carry on attracting the big names of the day. Even with the interest still being paid (I think the interest is down to a relatively small £21m/season) there isnt any issue with competing in this way if the board chooses to.
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I don't like his jacket either. So thats two of us. Moyes better be scared now.
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