Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? **Spoilers**
- Thread starter Robbo
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Caporegime
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Did he get to the other side?
Soldato
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Well aren't you a stickler for the straight. It's a forum, I can post an opinion. I don't like him. Much like a lot of people dislike Suarez for his antics, Moyes is destroying a club with his eneptitude, I'm aggrieved.
Curious, give him time to do what? Buy players he wants to perform outdated tactics that will have the rest of Europe laughing? ***** £200 million on talented players to then go and negate their technical ability with said tactics?
He's made Old Trafford a joke already, our possession and play statistics are a disgrace, because now we have one goal, get it to the byline.
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Moyes is a disgrace. He's ruining all the hard work Fergie did getting this club to the top.
We can't even beat teams in the bottom half of the table.
We can't even beat teams in the bottom half of the table.
awesome as Sir Bobby is his dislike for Mourinho and thinking Moyes would be better has turned to be the worst decision in united history
He may not have thought he was better, just that he or they didn't want to work with Mourinho, anyway Mourinho says it was never going to happen and was never on the table and that's all you can go off.
Fergie did so that's probably why he thought Moyes would be ok too. As good as Fergie was domestically he was a caveman in Europe and with the sides he built should have won far more European Cups.
Caporegime
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Yes Fergie was a tactical dinosaur in Europe. Moyes has all Fergie's weakness but none of his strengths (unless you count being Scottish and deluded in press conferences as a strength)
Stability bringing success is a fallacy, it's the other way around... success brings stability.
Just because the club stood behind Ferguson in tough times and he went on to become one of the best football managers in the history of the game doesn't mean that it will happen again just by being persistent, if you could create people like that by simply giving them time every club would have a legendary manager.
Just because the club stood behind Ferguson in tough times and he went on to become one of the best football managers in the history of the game doesn't mean that it will happen again just by being persistent, if you could create people like that by simply giving them time every club would have a legendary manager.
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Caporegime
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People are stupid, that's a general rule of thumb to go by 
This is also one of the reasons I highlight how unsuccessful Arsenal have been, 140-150mil wages now, over 100mil for 5-6 years now, least successful high spending team in europe... fail.
Dortmund won the league and at the same time did woefully badly in the CL, last season they focused on the CL and sacked off the league.. they dropped 20 points behind in the league but got to the CL final. They don't have the squad size or budget to run a treble chasing team. Bayern do, Arsenal do, Dortmund don't. This year they also have a serious injury crisis with players out long term and lots of shorter term injuries. They weren't far behind the top till the injuries started to rack up. Lost another player for the rest of the season last week.
Two main central mids out, huge issue for any team, look at Utd(not due to injuries, they just don't have anyone), or City yesterday, both CM's failed to show up last night and Chelsea dominated them easily. Most important position on the pitch, they've also got one CB out for the season and have had both injured at points throughout the season.
They are struggling, but they don't have the second 65mil wage bill of squad depth that the rest of the top teams in europe have.
On their budget, they are completely unmatched in terms of winning a top 4 league and getting to champs league final, no one else is coming close. Atletico have done exceptionally well so far, if they win, it will be not far off a Dortmund level of brilliance frankly.
This is also one of the reasons I highlight how unsuccessful Arsenal have been, 140-150mil wages now, over 100mil for 5-6 years now, least successful high spending team in europe... fail.
Dortmund won the league and at the same time did woefully badly in the CL, last season they focused on the CL and sacked off the league.. they dropped 20 points behind in the league but got to the CL final. They don't have the squad size or budget to run a treble chasing team. Bayern do, Arsenal do, Dortmund don't. This year they also have a serious injury crisis with players out long term and lots of shorter term injuries. They weren't far behind the top till the injuries started to rack up. Lost another player for the rest of the season last week.
Two main central mids out, huge issue for any team, look at Utd(not due to injuries, they just don't have anyone), or City yesterday, both CM's failed to show up last night and Chelsea dominated them easily. Most important position on the pitch, they've also got one CB out for the season and have had both injured at points throughout the season.
They are struggling, but they don't have the second 65mil wage bill of squad depth that the rest of the top teams in europe have.
On their budget, they are completely unmatched in terms of winning a top 4 league and getting to champs league final, no one else is coming close. Atletico have done exceptionally well so far, if they win, it will be not far off a Dortmund level of brilliance frankly.
Soldato
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Also altetico have huge problems with the tax man, making even more epic if they won. I think they saw very little money from the transfers of aguero and falcao as it went to pay the taxman.
:/
You think Moyes is going to worry about one person on a forum he'll never visit saying he doesn't like his face or his jacket?
He's had a tough start and no doubt made some mistakes but its too early to judge him or make an assertion as to the playing style he will look to adopt. I suspect that if you combine the tough starting fixtures and injuries to key players then there are grounds to offer some excuses. However all Uniteds rivals strengthened significantly and have really raised their level. United were flattered by the ease of the title win last season and the dawn of a new era was always going to present a lot of challenges.
I think Moyes is right to be cautious in the transfer market. Utd don't have the money to waste on players that wont cut it. With hindsight Fellaini does seem a bit like a panic buy but recruiting an international CM player who can put his foot in and win the ball is not exactly the poorest notion when assessing how to improve the club.
Signing a player like Mata is a good omen. He is a world class player but also one who is creative first and foremost. Midfield has been a problem for years. A problem that Fergie was unable to address, resorting to calling back Scholes and prolonging the career of Giggs beyond what any of our rivals would have done. I have never rated Carrick as a top class midfielder. He cant get in Englands team ahead of Cleverly, Lampard, Barry, Milner and now he looks like he has lost any pace. For me he will become a real problem for United if we persist with him. He's a holding midfield player who cannot tackle and doesnt have the engine to get forward if required. Our play is slow and predictable with him at its core. Weve tried Fletcher, Park, Jones in midfield and none are world class. Fletcher was made into a respectable player but he is a poor comparison to many of the rivals CM.
Players like Anderson, Nani and Young have been too happy not playing and sharing the glory of playing for United. It would be better if they leave and resurrect their careers elsewhere. Nani will be a disappointment as he had so much ability and has shown that he can be a matchwinner.
On the plus side Fergie has brought in Jones, Smalling, both of who have enough experience to step up and replace Vidic and Ferdinand. I also think they are good enough with one proviso - they toughen up. Evans is often clutching some part of his anatomy also - if he can man up he can also make the grade.
Moyes also identified that Evra was a weak link in our defence and much as I respect his combative and commited style he is often at the heart of defensive **** ups.
It hasnt been good this season but we have to give the manager a chance. If Liverpool lost Suarez and Sturridge they wouldnt be in 4th. Same can be said for other clubs. We have been unlucky with injuries. Often players dont like change and rebel against it. Moyes has to take the key players with him and ditch the moaners, ones that are too old and have lost the hunger.
Personally I think we can build a good side around DeGea, Jones, Smalling, Rooney, Mata and Januzaj. Unfortunately a clear out is necessary - it will cleanse the club of SAF's near indelible stamp on the club and allow Moyes to construct his own team.
I think Moyes is right to be cautious in the transfer market. Utd don't have the money to waste on players that wont cut it. With hindsight Fellaini does seem a bit like a panic buy but recruiting an international CM player who can put his foot in and win the ball is not exactly the poorest notion when assessing how to improve the club.
Signing a player like Mata is a good omen. He is a world class player but also one who is creative first and foremost. Midfield has been a problem for years. A problem that Fergie was unable to address, resorting to calling back Scholes and prolonging the career of Giggs beyond what any of our rivals would have done. I have never rated Carrick as a top class midfielder. He cant get in Englands team ahead of Cleverly, Lampard, Barry, Milner and now he looks like he has lost any pace. For me he will become a real problem for United if we persist with him. He's a holding midfield player who cannot tackle and doesnt have the engine to get forward if required. Our play is slow and predictable with him at its core. Weve tried Fletcher, Park, Jones in midfield and none are world class. Fletcher was made into a respectable player but he is a poor comparison to many of the rivals CM.
Players like Anderson, Nani and Young have been too happy not playing and sharing the glory of playing for United. It would be better if they leave and resurrect their careers elsewhere. Nani will be a disappointment as he had so much ability and has shown that he can be a matchwinner.
On the plus side Fergie has brought in Jones, Smalling, both of who have enough experience to step up and replace Vidic and Ferdinand. I also think they are good enough with one proviso - they toughen up. Evans is often clutching some part of his anatomy also - if he can man up he can also make the grade.
Moyes also identified that Evra was a weak link in our defence and much as I respect his combative and commited style he is often at the heart of defensive **** ups.
It hasnt been good this season but we have to give the manager a chance. If Liverpool lost Suarez and Sturridge they wouldnt be in 4th. Same can be said for other clubs. We have been unlucky with injuries. Often players dont like change and rebel against it. Moyes has to take the key players with him and ditch the moaners, ones that are too old and have lost the hunger.
Personally I think we can build a good side around DeGea, Jones, Smalling, Rooney, Mata and Januzaj. Unfortunately a clear out is necessary - it will cleanse the club of SAF's near indelible stamp on the club and allow Moyes to construct his own team.
Soldato
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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/03/anderson-manchester-united-players-want-out_n_4716173.html
From what some would say was utd's best midfielder, i jest
From what some would say was utd's best midfielder, i jest
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/03/anderson-manchester-united-players-want-out_n_4716173.html
From what some would say was utd's best midfielder, i jest
He's saying that his words have been twisted, which does seem to be the case.
Most of your points are fair, and I agree with both sides of the argument for him going and staying, but my analysis of the man himself and his idea of what's good enough is what concerns me greatly. I'm not sure he's got what it takes to fight for trophies or even top four now. We're basically having to hope rather than expect.
People are stupid, that's a general rule of thumb to go by
This is also one of the reasons I highlight how unsuccessful Arsenal have been, 140-150mil wages now, over 100mil for 5-6 years now, least successful high spending team in europe... fail.
Dortmund won the league and at the same time did woefully badly in the CL, last season they focused on the CL and sacked off the league.. they dropped 20 points behind in the league but got to the CL final. They don't have the squad size or budget to run a treble chasing team. Bayern do, Arsenal do, Dortmund don't. .
You should join comedy central
Arsenal havent even proven they have the squad to chase the title let alone a treble (and its pointless making that statement if the quality isnt there to start with)
I agree where you are comfing from in part - however with some of the leading members of the team being so completely effortless on the pitch it isnt really surprising (not helped by the fact a lot of them are nearing the end of their careers and more definitely at OT) and so they have obviously given up. They are already League winners, and in some cases CL winners also - given their advancing years (in football terms) they have done it all and its enough (or at the very least their body's are saying its enough). These are the players SAF for the most part could rely on with the odd younger player "filling in".
Rooney, Mata, RvP, Januzzaj, DDG, Raf, Smalling Jones, Evans, Carrick is a decent CORE of a new squad , bring in two or three youngsters from loans /U21's etc three or four Premium buys (whether these are already world class or youngsters showing a lot of promise) plus three or four squad players and the squad as a whole will start to look a lot better than it is now (Im a little cautious about buying that many players all at once, and it could well backfire - but at the end of the day the club and the team need it)
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People are stupid, that's a general rule of thumb to go by
This is also one of the reasons I highlight how unsuccessful Arsenal have been, 140-150mil wages now, over 100mil for 5-6 years now, least successful high spending team in europe... fail.
Who has won stuff with a lesser amount of money spent exactly?
How so? Transfer fees not included anymore or something to overall investment into a club.
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Caporegime
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Guys do we spend more than stoke and Sunderland? Yes by multiples so we should be battering them. Yet we are awful. Something is drastically wrong.
No, and I didn't say he would?
I just don't see how it's relevant to whether he stays or goes?
As a neutral...
It was highly likely there would be a transitional period in which they appeared to go backwards for a while. However, Moyes doesn't appear to have a plan. This isn't the 1980's and they obviously can't give him the sort of time to get things going like they did back then with SAF. He just doesn't seem like the right man for the job, so I would ditch him ASAP. It may not save their season, but at least it might bring some spark of possibilities to come.
It was highly likely there would be a transitional period in which they appeared to go backwards for a while. However, Moyes doesn't appear to have a plan. This isn't the 1980's and they obviously can't give him the sort of time to get things going like they did back then with SAF. He just doesn't seem like the right man for the job, so I would ditch him ASAP. It may not save their season, but at least it might bring some spark of possibilities to come.
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