Donald Trump

[neckbeardthethird]

You do know literally no one outside of the leftie soy boys on Twitter care about **** like this?

That's simply wishful thinking from yourself, half my mates aren't even politically engaged and yet still take the **** out of him regularly because he gives everyone so much ammo to take the ****. Of course no one really 'cares' deeply about it, but its pretty standard to take the **** out of politicians (of any party) when there's big open goal to do so. The right regularly mock Dianne Abbots appearance, it's not like it's some exclusive trait of the left.

Also why use terms like soyboys ? just devalues your argument and makes people not take you seriously.

 

[mmj_uk]

Except the polls currently show more independents supporting impeachment than against it (latest one being 47% for and 41% against), so your assertion is currently wrong (again).

Source?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/271691/trump-approval-inches-support-impeachment-dips.aspx

Looking at the graph this whole embarrassing charade has helped him.

Half the country didn't approve of impeachment and Trump's approval has gone from around 35% at the height of Russia propaganda to nearly 45%, impeachment has backfired because the Democrat case is so weak they just look desperate and unwilling to accept the peoples will of electing Trump, the Democrats made a bunch of statements on the house floor that "this is a sad/somber day" and then celebrated when the vote passed, it's all theatre from a bunch of politicians who never accepted the 2016 elections (much like remainers and Brexit) and any American who isn't a never-Trumper can see it. Most of the frothers supporting impeachment are in the big few states but you can't win an election with just California and New York.

Even Nadler said 20 years ago that if a president is ever impeached along party lines then it would lack legitimacy. The Democrats couldn't even get all of their own party to vote for it.

 

[neckbeardthethird]

At this point it's just lazy analysis to say with confidence that impeachment will win/lose him an election. No one really knows for certain how swing voters will go. Why are people so sure that swing voters will have the same partisan reaction as the left or the right when traditionally they are not partisan by nature ?

There are polls which say it will damage him and others which suggest it won't. We all saw how accurate polls were in 2016 so why such faith in them now ? The elections are still a year away, a lot can happen in a year.

 

[Pottsey]

the Democrat case is so weak they just look desperate and unwilling to accept the peoples will of electing Trump

From what I recall Trump lost the peoples vote and it wasn't the peoples vote that got him in power. It was also the people's vote that put the Democrats in power to impeach Trump. So are you saying the people wanted Trump impeached?

Did you miss the court order late Friday that released evidence that shows Trump is guilty of obstruction of Congress purposely trying to hide what he did from Congress along with proving he froze the money right after asking for a favour which got refused? Its all in the documents the court order forced the Trump Administration to hand over. It all came out yesterday for us in the UK.

Your going be in for the shock of a lifetime when you finally realise this isn't about the Democrats and what type of person Trump really is. Worse you cannot say you didn't see this coming as more then enough people warned you about Trump's proven corruption and fraud. I have no idea why you support Trump who only cares about creating the biggest swamp he can.

 

[mmj_uk]

From what I recall Trump lost the peoples vote and it wasn't the peoples vote that got him in power.

Cry all you want about the electoral college but it exists to give more power to the minority states, isn't that the sort of thing leftists approve of? the electoral college stops the majority of smaller US states being oppressed by 2-3 of the most populous states who have a wildly different lifestyle to the rest of the country.

It was also the people's vote that put the Democrats in power to impeach Trump. So are you saying the people wanted Trump impeached?

He's not strictly been impeached, they've voted to impeach him that's all. Impeachment is a process that involves more than just a vote in the house.

Did you miss the court order late Friday that released evidence that shows Trump is guilty of obstruction of Congress purposely trying to hide what he did from Congress along with proving he froze the money right after asking for a favour which got refused? Its all in the documents the court order forced the Trump Administration to hand over. It all came out yesterday for us in the UK.

Your going be in for the shock of a lifetime when you finally realise this isn't about the Democrats and what type of person Trump really is. Worse you cannot say you didn't see this coming as more then enough people warned you about Trump's proven corruption and fraud. I have no idea why you support Trump who only cares about creating the biggest swamp he can.

Even if it's all true and Trump is guilty it still looks worse for the Democrats, so let me get this straight... Trump (allegedly) blackmailed Ukraine (although no threat exists and Ukraine have stated they were never threatened) to look into corruption involving Hunter Biden who has made millions for doing nothing for a company in Ukraine, Joe Biden is on video admitting that he got a prosecutor looking into corruption involving said company and Hunter Biden fired by blackmailing Ukraine (with the backing of Obama) in the exact same way Trump is accused of. THERE IS ACTUAL EVIDENCE, A CONFESSION from Joe Biden widely circulating on video. So lets assume Trump did it even though there is no evidence of any threat and the victim (Ukraine) have denied they were ever threatened, even so in that case Trump blackmailed Ukraine to look into CORRUPTION that Biden had blackmailed Ukraine to COVER UP because it involved his son.

Who comes out of this the worst again? I'd rather be guilty of "abuse of power" demanding someone look into corruption than to try to cover it up. The Democrats likely 2020 candidate being involved in a CORRUPTION scandal is a far bigger story for me.

It also begs the question why Joe Biden (and Obama) get a free pass for committing the same crime Trump is accused of and the Democrats are so desperate to impeach him for, the same Democrats who have been wanting to impeach him since 2016.

 

[Pottsey]

“Cry all you want about the electoral college but it exists to give more power to the minority states,”

I am not crying, I am pointing out that more of the population voted against Trump then for him and voted to put the dems in power to impeach him. The general public is not on Trump’s side anymore.

“Even if it's all true and Trump is guilty it still looks worse for the Democrats, so let me get this straight... Trump (allegedly) blackmailed Ukraine (although no threat exists and Ukraine have stated they were never threatened) to look into corruption involving Hunter Biden who has made millions for doing nothing for a company in Ukraine, Joe Biden is on video admitting that he got a prosecutor looking into corruption involving said company and Hunter Biden fired by blackmailing Ukraine (with the backing of Obama) in the exact same way Trump is accused of. THERE IS ACTUAL EVIDENCE, A CONFESSION from Joe Biden widely circulating on video. So lets assume Trump did it even though there is no evidence of any threat and the victim (Ukraine) have denied they were ever threatened, even so in that case Trump blackmailed Ukraine to look into CORRUPTION that Biden had blackmailed Ukraine to COVER UP because it involved his son.”

What do you mean even if its true? The files where realised to the public via court order late Friday. Its true, anyone with basic reading skills can see its true. That fact you still question it shows how delusional pro Trump you are.

It’s funny how often you just stick your fingers in your ears and shut your eyes pretending things didn’t happen. Ukraine stating everything is ok is irrelevant, you know that, it doesn’t prove anything, it doesn’t clear Trump. Ukraine doesn’t even have anything to do with the 2nd reason Trump was impeached which Trump is 100% guilty off. Your so hung up on Ukraine that you are ignoring everything else and the other crimes Trump has commented.

Like I said before I don’t care or support the Democrats. So how does any of what you just said make what Trump did ok? Pointing to other people committing crimes doesn’t clear Trump of committing the same crimes. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

This is what you are confused about. This isn’t about Democrats v Republicans. Its not even really about who wins the next election. It’s about stamping out the swamp, fraud, corruption and dishonesty which are 4 things Trump represents.

Like I asked before if you are so against fraud, corruption and dishonesty why do you find it acceptable for Trump to do all 3? How can you find it wrong for Hunter Biden to do all 3 but if Trumps does the same thing you are ok with it?

Do you realise being anti Trump is not the same as anti Republican. Being against Trump doesn’t automatically mean you are pro Democrats or want the Democrats to win.

Why are you ok with Trumps immoral behaviour, dishonesty, fraud and corruption? Why do you support someone that covers up the truth, cheats on his wife and steals vast sums of charity money for himself. How can you find that acceptable?

“Who comes out of this the worst again? I'd rather be guilty of "abuse of power" demanding someone look into corruption than to try to cover it up.”

Its not about who comes out worse. Neither are fit to be president. Neither are fit to be in power. Both belong locked up for any crimes they committed. Trump ticks all the box’s anyway, guiltily of abuse of power, guiltily of fraud and corruption, guiltily of trying to cover things up.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

At this point it's just lazy analysis to say with confidence that impeachment will win/lose him an election. No one really knows for certain how swing voters will go. Why are people so sure that swing voters will have the same partisan reaction as the left or the right when traditionally they are not partisan by nature ?

There are polls which say it will damage him and others which suggest it won't. We all saw how accurate polls were in 2016 so why such faith in them now ? The elections are still a year away, a lot can happen in a year.

although I agree that it is way too soon to say what will happen, the polls weren’t wrong. They said Hilary would win the most votes, she did by over 3m votes, those votes just weren’t in the right places. Trump won by taking a few key districts by 70k votes. T

 

[Caracus2k]

Who’s claiming Trump made them up?

I literally quoted an other SC Trump thread regular in this thread making this exact claim ....which was even contrary to their previous statements ... but like many in SC you either ignore it or are so deluded that you want fail to spot such laughable nonsense in the first place

SC, particularly the current POTUS and brexit threads are egregious echo chambers of single minded group think.

Blatant nonsense and falsehoods all too often go completely unchallenged but for the input of 'crazies'.

Sign of the times I guess.... The TDS bunch think there onto a winner because having had the most scrutinised POTUS ever, subject to allegations retrospectively claimed to be Trump generated conspiracy theories, they have finally dredged up something they think is impeachment worthy.

So much stupid above. Seriously the investigation was nothing to do with collusion. What part of that do you not understand?? Also what is fact is that the only person going on about collusion was....Trump.

And previously.....

2018 will be interesting to see how Trump carries on. He’s had a year to settle into the position but I don’t hold much hope for things getting any better. If anything his comments about China could cause a few more issues along with the Mueller investigation into Trump/Russian collusion. Hopefully there will be more to come out with that investigation.

 

[ianh]

When Trump wins In a landslide soooo many echo Chambers will be bust. Its just like our own election night all over again, those on the "left" just point blank refuse to see that the "silent majority" who tend to be fairly centralist just don't want them and, just like in 2016, when reality slaps them in the face with yet another Trump win in 2020 they'll still be absolutely blind-sided by it, just like our Labour is right now, because they only ever listen to people who agree with them and shout nasty "-ist" names at those they disagree with without ever actually listening.

It's amazing that rational people genuinely can't see the woods for the trees with all of these events (Brexit, UK 2019, Trump 2020 etc).

 

[neckbeardthethird]

When Trump wins In a landslide soooo many echo Chambers will be bust. Its just like our own election night all over again, those on the "left" just point blank refuse to see that the "silent majority" who tend to be fairly centralist just don't want them and, just like in 2016, when reality slaps them in the face with yet another Trump win in 2020 they'll still be absolutely blind-sided by it, just like our Labour is right now, because they only ever listen to people who agree with them and shout nasty "-ist" names at those they disagree with without ever actually listening.

It's amazing that rational people genuinely can't see the woods for the trees with all of these events (Brexit, UK 2019, Trump 2020 etc).

Lack of self awareness in this post is breathtaking.

Why on earth are you tring to make out the Dems are like Labour and a lefty party ? The only lefties in the Dems are justice democrats and they are a minority, the majority of the rest are closer to Tories than they are the Labour party.

 

[ianh]

And yet everything factual (and not opinion) in my statement is right.

I'm a centralist who leans left and right depending on the topic, so I have no echo chamber allowing me to see both sides, and as such I predict Trump to win with more than his previous election, but its OK to have a different opinion based on not listening to "everyone" and only listening to those who agree, it must make for a nice warm feeling I'd guess.

 

[neckbeardthethird]

And yet everything factual (and not opinion) in my statement is right.

I'm a centralist who leans left and right depending on the topic, so I have no echo chamber allowing me to see both sides, and as such I predict Trump to win with more than his previous election, but its OK to have a different opinion based on not listening to "everyone" and only listening to those who agree, it must make for a nice warm feeling I'd guess.

Im fine with you having a different opinion (although I don't claim to know what way the election will go) it just seems a bit of a lazy analysis, especially as you're comparing a genuine lefty party like Labour (with an unpopular leader) to the Dems who are not a true lefty party (and haven't even decided on their candidate yet).

If the backlash against the dems is so big why did the Republicans not do so well in the mid terms ? They lost control of the house which has ultimately led to impeachment.

 

[Roar87]

Lack of self awareness in this post is breathtaking.

Why on earth are you tring to make out the Dems are like Labour and a lefty party ? The only lefties in the Dems are justice democrats and they are a minority, the majority of the rest are closer to Tories than they are the Labour party.

Relative to American politics the Democrats are on the left, do you need that explaining to you?

 

[neckbeardthethird]

Relative to American politics the Democrats are on the left, do you need that explaining to you?

Yes but he's comparing them to the Labour party, its a flawed comparison... the dems policies are more in line with Tories than Labour (provided Bernie doesn't get in)

 

[Roar87]

Yes but he's comparing them to the Labour party, its a flawed comparison... the dems policies are more in line with Tories than Labour (provided Bernie doesn't get in)

In America they are the equivalent of our Labour party as far as Americans are concerned

 

[neckbeardthethird]

In America they are the equivalent of our Labour party as far as Americans are concerned

Fair point, still the mid terms paint a different picture to what he's predicting. For it to be a landslide there would have to be a huge shift to the right and apparently that is statistically unlikely... but who knows.

I genuinely don't think its clear cut either way at this point.

 

[Caracus2k]

Lack of self awareness in this post is breathtaking.

Why on earth are you tring to make out the Dems are like Labour and a lefty party ? The only lefties in the Dems are justice democrats and they are a minority, the majority of the rest are closer to Tories than they are the Labour party.

All the various versions of the 'green new deal' are socialism hiding behind environmentalism.

Demands for authoritarian command economies to 'fix' a supposed climate emergency.

Classic watermelon politics .....

Of course there unlikely to actually address any climate issues and could well make them worse.

The socialists of Venezuela decried that capitalism was ruining the eco systems even as their incompetent mis management of seized oil extraction and processing facilities was causing pollution on a mass scale that would neve rbe tolerated in a free market economy. Karl Marx himself believed that the (capitalist) exploitation of the workers went hand in hand with the exploitation of nature.

Of course the real world outcomes of attempts to put his doctrines in action have resulted in some of the worst environmental degradation on the planet.

And even the supposedly most moderate of the dems candidates is under the thrall of this ideology which has infected the dems.

AOC and Rashida Tlaib are in the Democrats and are both signed up members of the democratic socialists of America.

So don't give me the dems are basically closer to where the Uk tories are line.

 

[GGizmo]

No President as ever been removed from office due to being impeached.

It can be argued that he's not been impeached yet as the Congress hasn't fulfilled it's duty i.e. to pass it up to the Senate.

The idea of going ahead with an impeachment that would 100% ultimately fail is lunacy, and as handed Trump new election material.

I was listening to Democratic candidate Andrew Yang earlier saying that the Dem's need at least 20 republicans to come across to them. So far they have 0. So unless they can get to 20 then the whole exercise is very shortsighted.

 

[ianh]

Fair point, still the mid terms paint a different picture to what he's predicting. For it to be a landslide there would have to be a huge shift to the right and apparently that is statistically unlikely... but who knows.

The point I made in my post explained all this, but to requote myself - The "silent Majority" are generally centralists and they usually react negatively towards the more extreme (as they see it) policies like current "very left wing" Democrats that they see in the news (as more centralist Democrats have been side-lined) vs the more central but still right Republicans, only the Polls will never be able to get these people opinions because they are Silent 99% of the time, but when they do vote it's usually massive.

We have had the exact same situation here - the "silent majority" voted Tory when no-one predicted they would, and when they did they caused a landslide. I'm just betting that the "silent majority" in the US are the same "side-lined by the left" types just like back here in the UK, and they'll react strongly at the polls just like ours did.

However as both the UK and US are different I could easily be wrong, again it's just an opinion, but to me it looks like the Democrat Party are making exactly the same mistake as Labour here in the UK - Forgetting to really appeal to their original voter base - the lower "class" (I know the US doesn't have that system, it's just a label) - whilst concentrating on the already Democrat middle class, concentrating their PR on being more and more left when the majority of the country is actually fairly central on most things, and believing their own echo chamber (inc twitter etc) because to look outside that is just scary.

Still time will tell and I'll be happy to admit I was wrong should trump lose.

 

[VincentHanna]

Well this must just be a coincidence:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50886437

The White House sought to freeze aid to Ukraine just 91 minutes after President Trump spoke to President Volodymyr Zelensky by phone in July, a newly-released government email has revealed.

The newly-released email was obtained by the Center for Public Integrity following a court order in a freedom of information case.

It shows that a senior White House official, Mike Duffey, contacted senior defence officials about withholding Ukraine's aid just over an hour-and-a-half after Mr Trump ended a 25 July call with President Zelensky.