Donald Trump

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Murphy said:
...great rebuttal...
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He doesn't read what he's posting up. It's very easy to shout "Fake News" when the articles are about something that hurts your cause. Going on to use the same "Fake News" to prove your point is hypocritical. He's cherry-picking headlines without actually quoting the parts in the article that paint a very different picture:

"NIH Expert Fauci: Coronavirus 'No Worry' for Americans"

...isn't the same as...

"It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]," National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director Anthony Fauci told "The Cats Roundtable" on 970 AM-N.Y., per The Hill. And we have ways of responding – like we did with this one case in Seattle, Washington, who had traveled to China and brought back the infection." or "It's a very, very low risk to the United States, but it's something that we as public health officials need to take very seriously," Fauci added to host John Catsimatidis, per The Hill.

That was said at the end of January. Yep, no worry is totally the same.

He said all of this at a time where they should have been preparing. Something that Trump didn't do because he wasn't taking things seriously. There's no need to attend briefings on a potential pandemic when you're the one in charge. It just isn't a requirement.

To clarify for Trump supports, that's sarcasm.
 
Murphy said:
Is it that you just didn't read the bit where they said "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities", i mean it would be pretty hard to miss that as you posted the blooming link yourself.
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I suspect he's just regurgitating comments and links from far-right and CT websites, there is no interpretation nor understanding on his part.
 
tang0 said:
https://www.newsmax.com/us/virus-outbreak-infectious-disease/2020/01/26/id/951325/

On January 21st, Fauci said the virus was 'No Worry' for Americans

https://twitter.com/KurtSchlichter/status/1249464011105529856

On January 29th, Trump closed all travel from China.

On February 29th, Fauci said it wasn't a problem

https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggo...uising-is-ok-if-you-are-healthy/#5a87e2962d4d

On March 9th he said go on cruise ships

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The media was attacking Trump for shutting down travel from China, Biden called him xeonphobic, now they're saying he should have done it sooner

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

In January, WHO claimed that there was no evidence of human to human transmission, when there was clear evidence there was

What the hell was Trump supposed to do with all these experts saying it wasn't a problem. Shut down the country in January when there wasn't a single reported case? And why is Trump taking the blame for a worldwide pandemic, it's so stupid
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Right on this "WHO said in January.." WHO put out a tweet on Jan 14th that is being hung around their neck. "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel"


So there are these words "Preliminary investigations" and "found no clear evidence" so "preliminary investigations" says to me very early investigations and "found no clear evidence" is what scientists say when they haven't found clear evidence of something they have been looking at. Now if that was the only information governments got from WHO you might have a point. Thing is that isn't how WHO communicates with governments is it, by tweet I mean. They are not only talking to Govs constantly Govs have members of their administrations working in WHO. The US has members working at WHO in Geneva and were communicating throughout January.

Who tweeted this on Jan 9th


They also tweeted this on Jan 14th, same day as the tweet Trump is using


Jan 13th


Jan 14th. For an organisation that you say said it was safe they seem to be taking a lot of precautions. Didn't Trump get this tweet??


The point is Trump is using this for his own political gains. I want to see what his administration was being told by its members working at WHO, his own Intel community, members of his administration who are experts in this field. Because from what the press are saying he was being told in early Feb this could get very bad and he ignored it. In the end the buck always stops with the Chief Exec.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
...
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Isn't it great when you've got actual tweets with the timestamps and all the information to totally disprove what those defending Trump have to say about things? It couldn't be any clearer. The things he's saying about no warnings etc are complete lies. All of those tweets from the WHO clearly say to take precautions and to be careful, and that at the time of writing there's no clear information so they can't say one way or the other. It's a pretty safe bet though that due to how other respiratory viruses spread, that it would have followed the same patterns. The WHO even mentioned this in their tweet on the 14th Jan:

"Hi Matt, there has been no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV). However, such transmission is always a concern when patients have respiratory symptoms - this requires further investigation."

That doesn't seem like they're saying "It won't spread human-to-human". In fact, it's quite the opposite. But I guess people will see what they want to see as long as it suits their argument.
 
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The DemocRat machine is rallying around Joe Biden and Tara Reade is the first #metoo victim in the history of #metoo who shouldn't be believed, it's strange how that works. "We must believe all victims, oh wait... not THAT one!"

Personally, for me there's not evidence to be able to definitively say that Joe Biden is guilty but I was arguing the same during the WEEKS AND WEEKS of DemocRat and corporate media hysteria surrounding the Brett Kavanaugh allegation where they were using it as grounds to ruin his reputation and career. How can the DemocRats do what they did to Brett Kavanaugh and then turn around now and defend Joe Biden? it should be clear now to anyone that thinks for themselves that the DemocRats and corporate media care not for the victims of #metoo but it has simply been used a political weapon.
 
mmj_uk said:
The DemocRat machine is rallying around Joe Biden and Tara Reade is the first #metoo victim in the history of #metoo who shouldn't be believed, it's strange how that works. "We must believe all victims, oh wait... not THAT one!"

Personally, for me there's not evidence to be able to definitively say that Joe Biden is guilty but I was arguing the same during the WEEKS AND WEEKS of DemocRat and corporate media hysteria surrounding the Brett Kavanaugh allegation where they were using it as grounds to ruin his reputation and career. How can the DemocRats do what they did to Brett Kavanaugh and then turn around now and defend Joe Biden? it should be clear now to anyone that thinks for themselves that the DemocRats and corporate media care not for the victims of #metoo but it has simply been used a political weapon.
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Like a broken record.
 
mmj_uk said:
The DemocRat machine is rallying around Joe Biden and Tara Reade is the first #metoo victim in the history of #metoo who shouldn't be believed, it's strange how that works. "We must believe all victims, oh wait... not THAT one!"

Personally, for me there's not evidence to be able to definitively say that Joe Biden is guilty but I was arguing the same during the WEEKS AND WEEKS of DemocRat and corporate media hysteria surrounding the Brett Kavanaugh allegation where they were using it as grounds to ruin his reputation and career. How can the DemocRats do what they did to Brett Kavanaugh and then turn around now and defend Joe Biden? it should be clear now to anyone that thinks for themselves that the DemocRats and corporate media care not for the victims of #metoo but it has simply been used a political weapon.
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You do realise that "DemocRat" makes you appear to have a mental age of about 12 right?

Kavanaugh was going through Senate confirmation as every federal judge must. Christine Blasey Ford's allegations had to be heard as this is a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the USA. I don't know if what she said happened happened. I do however think Kavanaugh was not honest about his drinking in high school and collage. He clearly drank for more heavily than he claimed and the "its a drinking game" in regards to Devils Triangle rates very high on the bull **** detector. Should he have been stopped from being a judge for heavy drinking as a youth? No obviously not. However he isn't a politician, he is a judge so lying is a major problem. How can you make rulings on the biggest case in the country if you are a liar?

As for Biden's case, from what I've read there are issues with her story changing, there being no trace of the complaint she submitted to the Senate department that deals with staffing complaints. It should be fully investigated though. However it is also just one case, all the other women have said that his touching of arms, back, head might have felt inappropriate but were not sexual. He is touchy feely, that isn't the same as sexual assault.

The voters will decide on this and considering they elected a man with over 20 accusations of sexual assault I do wonder if this ranks very highly on American voters minds.
 
Trusty said:
In recessions and downturns, something like an extra 7000 people die for every 1 million unemployed.
What are the unemployment numbers in USA? 25 million? So thats 175k people will die or have died due to shutting down the economy.
58k have died due to the virus.
So...its obviously not as simple as "shut down the economy asap"
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This second guessing of what the death toll could have been or not had it not been shut down is taking off on the right huh. Only 58k dead so it wasn't worth it when thousands will die from social economic reasons from the recession to come. We will never know I guess and lets not forget we are still only 2 and bit months into this. Bit early to second guess as hundreds of thousands dead would be so much worse and would have shut down the economy anyway as everyone panicked and stayed at home. Well except for the MAGA "we don't believe in this or vaccines" crowd but hey not a great loss to humanity right.
 
mmj_uk said:
The DemocRat machine is rallying around Joe Biden and Tara Reade is the first #metoo victim in the history of #metoo who shouldn't be believed, it's strange how that works. "We must believe all victims, oh wait... not THAT one!"

Personally, for me there's not evidence to be able to definitively say that Joe Biden is guilty but I was arguing the same during the WEEKS AND WEEKS of DemocRat and corporate media hysteria surrounding the Brett Kavanaugh allegation where they were using it as grounds to ruin his reputation and career. How can the DemocRats do what they did to Brett Kavanaugh and then turn around now and defend Joe Biden? it should be clear now to anyone that thinks for themselves that the DemocRats and corporate media care not for the victims of #metoo but it has simply been used a political weapon.
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How can all the Trump supporters shout about Biden then turn a blind eye to Trump doing x10 worse. Why should Trump get a free pass when his actions are provable and worse? Trump is unbelievabley creepy and worse then anything we know about Biden in that regard.
 
To all the guff from above since my last post saying I was taking things out of context, I clearly wasn't. If this was such an obvious catastrophe waiting to happen, Fauci and WHO wouldn't have been downplaying it like they did. You guys are accusing Trump of not completely shutting the country down back in January when there were no cases, and at around the same time Pelosi was in the streets of Chinatown telling everyone to get out there and support them

US are not in the top 10 for deaths per capita, so why aren't you blaming our leaders for this then? Where's the blame for Italy etc

pacegod said:
No he did not, he banned travel by chinese nationals, US nationals could still fly home and most went un checked for the virus. Over 40,000 people arrvied from China into the US after that date. Also most US airlines had already stopped flights to and from China.
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Correct, so was he supposed to not let his citizens back in the country then?
 
Thanks for proving my point that the leader of the house also didn't realise how big of a problem it would turn out to be
 
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tang0 said:
...To all the guff from above since my last post saying I was taking things out of context, I clearly wasn't...
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Sums up your attitude perfectly to be honest. We've posted with factual information and evidence to the contrary of what you've posted, pointing out the flaws and inaccuracies in what you've said, and you respond by calling what we've posted up "guff".

I'm afraid you clearly were taking things out of context. It's pretty clear that you didn't read anything written in those articles themselves, you just picked things to assist you with your argument and they were just the sensationalist headlines. You truly do follow Trump because you act exactly like him, making up your own "facts" to suit your argument.

If you care to look back through this thread, you'll see that I criticised Boris Johnson and our government for the way they've handled things. The difference here is that they're not on national television suggesting injecting disinfectant as a way to combat the virus, and then saying it was actually a sarcastic comment directed at reporters when it quite clearly and obviously wasn't. Neither are they standing up there every night saying how amazing they are and that they've handled everything brilliantly, they're the best, etc. Do you honestly think that it's the same thing between us and them?
 
tang0 said:
To all the guff from above since my last post saying I was taking things out of context, I clearly wasn't. If this was such an obvious catastrophe waiting to happen, Fauci and WHO wouldn't have been downplaying it like they did. You guys are accusing Trump of not completely shutting the country down back in January when there were no cases, and at around the same time Pelosi was in the streets of Chinatown telling everyone to get out there and support them

US are not in the top 10 for deaths per capita, so why aren't you blaming our leaders for this then? Where's the blame for Italy etc



Correct, so was he supposed to not let his citizens back in the country then?
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No one is saying he should have shut it all down in Feb (maybe the last few days). February in the US and UK and probably other European countries was the time to sort tests, masks and PPE. February was wasted.

You seem to be under the impression Fauci can say what he pleases. He is part of the administration which means to a large degree he gives his opinion to Trump and then Trump decides on what action to take if any and what the message the administration puts out. Fauci is bound by that or he leaves, being a doctor there are obviously some things he wouldn't say but he is sent out with a message. You seem to assuming that what he was saying was what he told Trump.

As for people returning or coming indirectly from China, it seems the easiest thing to have done is test everyone entering the US who has a exit visa from China less than 14 days old. Everyone has to show a passport and they just have to check the pages at immigration. If negative tell everyone to self quarantine for 14 days and any positive placed in quarantine.
 
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It's all shoulda woulda coulda based on hindsight, it blindsided the world, but because it's Trump it's all his fault. Biden shot him down for closing China too early claiming he was hysterical, xenophobic and fear-mongering, then he was attacking him for for not blocking more people from China ie. the US nationals

People have turned a worldwide problem into a Trump problem to score political points, US is the only country and Trump the only leader that has been politicised in all of this
 
tang0 said:
It's all shoulda woulda coulda based on hindsight, it blindsided the world, but because it's Trump it's all his fault. Biden shot him down for closing China too early claiming he was hysterical, xenophobic and fear-mongering, then he was attacking him for for not blocking more people from China ie. the US nationals

People have turned a worldwide problem into a Trump problem to score political points, US is the only country and Trump the only leader that has been politicised in all of this
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If you've watched his briefings and you still have to ask why he's being picked on, then there's something wrong with the way you interpret what he's saying and how he's saying it.
 
tang0 said:
To all the guff from above since my last post saying I was taking things out of context, I clearly wasn't. If this was such an obvious catastrophe waiting to happen, Fauci and WHO wouldn't have been downplaying it like they did. You guys are accusing Trump of not completely shutting the country down back in January when there were no cases, and at around the same time Pelosi was in the streets of Chinatown telling everyone to get out there and support them


US are not in the top 10 for deaths per capita, so why aren't you blaming our leaders for this then? Where's the blame for Italy etc


Correct, so was he supposed to not let his citizens back in the country then?
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tang0 said:
It's all shoulda woulda coulda based on hindsight, it blindsided the world, but because it's Trump it's all his fault. Biden shot him down for closing China too early claiming he was hysterical, xenophobic and fear-mongering, then he was attacking him for for not blocking more people from China ie. the US nationals


People have turned a worldwide problem into a Trump problem to score political points, US is the only country and Trump the only leader that has been politicised in all of this
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What about what I said which proves Trumps is responsible, are you just going to skip over all that?

We are not accusing Trump of failing to completely shut the country back in January. What we are accusing Trump of is failing to take sensible precautions, failing to react correctly once the Virus did land and failing to lock down correctly once it started to spread along with all his other failings. Trump also completely messed up the economy and failed to protect it causing far worse damage then was needed. Trump also failed with a major test kit shortage again he was out golfing then blaming everyone else.

We are accusing Trump of making the situation massively worse by dismantling the anti pandemic team and dissolving the anti pandemic structure and systems back in 2018 which would have limited the virus spread and damage. Trump is responsible for going out playing golf instead of working to restock essential medical supplies then he blamed everyone else.

Of course you let the citizens back in. But you test and quarantine them like everyone else was doing. But not Trump, he skipped the testing and skipped the quarantine. Which is 100% Trumps fault.

It didn’t blindside the world in that the US was one of the last to be hit and Trump had plenty of time to prepare and see what happened everywhere else. Trump was to busy playing golf and calling it a hoax completely wasted the time to prepare and messing up every step of the way.

Yes it is a world wide problem but that doesn’t change the fact Trump is responsible for the US and responsible for the US being hit x10 harder then it needed to be. Trump is the one that dismantled the anti pandemic systems and fired the anti pandemic experts allowing the Virus to hit harder then it would have otherwise. Trump is the one that failed to restock medical supplies because he was to busy golfing.
 
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