Don't Pay UK

Simon said:
No. Cause that means they lost 20b. What are you on? That’s not sustainable. Shell operate all around the world and probably don’t make a huge amount in the Uk. So as said. Should everyone have help with energy bills cause a companies makes money on a commodity that is set by the market ?

Typical rant of someone who doesn’t really understand how the energy market works. What should companies do. Sell it lower than market rate? Stop supplying ?
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Dude clam down. They aren’t going hungry lol. And they ain’t making 20bn losses year on year out as you well know. It was a temporary loss that will be made back many times over without even touching the huge financial reserves they have built up over the years.

The market is broken so it needs to be fixed. Protests are going to happening, people are going to suffer so wether I know nothing or not I’ll always side with the people in need rather than those who have too much. It can be fixed minds just need to be concentrated.
 
Doobedoo said:
No telling people just to use less isn’t really much help.
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in theory it could ..... if everyone used a little less energy*** - even those who can afford to pay - then demand would drop in electricty. if demand for electricity drops then its cost drops - as most here will know, if demand drops too much energy companies have to PAY money, hence agile tarrifs can go negative, to encourage people to use more energy off peak so they dont have to pay to shut down wind turbines etc (according to my app in the interests of fairness it hasnt gone negative for some time!!!).

you are right that telling broke people who are already using very little electricty will do naff all

*** and i am not claiming to be perfect here, sitting at home working in my home office with laptop, pc and 2 screens all on......

i do wish people would stop blaming green levies tho. over all its not a huge amount on our bills, and actually if we had more renewables this wouldnt be a problem..... I was told for years by friends that solar just does not work in the uk, and i can tell you after having it for 13 minths ........ utter nonsense!. my solar panels have covered 60% of my energy usage, and i was a fairly high energy user (in 12 months generated 4600kwh and i have consumed 7600kwh in total so that is a huge chunk of my electricity use self generated). (WFH hasnt helped my electricity use as my home office is heated by electric.... but better that than my 34miles round trip in a diesel car)

obviously not everyone is in a position to get solar, either cant afford or dont have a sensible house, but all those who CAN get solar should really consider it with the knock on effect of it helping those who are tied to using the grid, and long term will be an investment as well. its a win win.

I have no problem a small percentage of my bill going to green levies... much rather that than paying subsidies to fossil fuels - which is a thing as well.

my goal is to reduce my electricity consumption by 20% this winter............. which should be doable i think.
 
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Simon said:
The government already protecting people from the real prices. What else can they do. What are people protesting for?
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It’s not enough to be handing tax payer money directly to energy companies. thats essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul. Some people might not in a position to pay it a huge increase on already stretched budgets. We have people continuing to profiteer year on year out they need to take a hit for once.
 
Doobedoo said:
We have people continuing to profiteer year on year out they need to take a hit for once.
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They are though, the UK government has already imposed a windfall tax on profits made in the UK. It doesn't change the reality that energy now costs more and people have to pay for things... not paying bills doesn't seem like a good way to deal with that, some could end up on pre-payment meters as a result.

You seem to be ignoring reality here, various energy companies have already gone bust in the UK they literally have taken a hit, there is a price cap in place and this protest movement aims to call some sort of bill strike if it is adjusted upwards yet it pretty much needs to else supplying electricity and gas isn't going to be economically feasible.
 
Doobedoo said:
It’s not enough to be handing tax payer money directly to energy companies. thats essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul. Some people might not in a position to pay it a huge increase on already stretched budgets. We have people continuing to profiteer year on year out they need to take a hit for once.
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So what’s your solution? Start burning coal? Start more gas exploration ? Go to Russia and say sorry and start buying their gas again?

People will protest about all those things too
 
Simon said:
So what’s your solution? Start burning coal? Start more gas exploration ? Go to Russia and say sorry and start buying their gas again?

People will protest about all those things too
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No doubt cutting your nose off to spite your face obviously wasn’t that smart and hasn’t altered the situation in Ukraine but that’s a can of worms. Sit all these greedy players around a table and tell them to sort it out. You’ve made enough money over the years, we allow you to profit from planet killing resources now we’re raining you in.
 
Caracus2k said:
International problem primarily caused by *GLOBAL* cartels like OPEC+

...Who were caught out by demand dropping massively during COVID causing the prices of some fuels to collapse (particularly for petroleum) so they reacted, as expected, by vastly cutting back the supply.

Go forward and demand picks up and so does the price and they have no incentive to extract fossil fuels quicker and pay for the investment and wages to do so when they can just charge more for what they are already extracting in their cartels.


OPEC+ countries control 90% odd of proven oil reserves.


The only 'fault' of the UK govement in this regard is going along with the Green agenda for renewables, which has put up domestic energy bills a lot and not giving the go ahead for more domestic fracking.

Something which has been very unpopular with many of the very same people now moaning about paying nearly £2 a litre for petrol with gas and electric prices also soaring.

Oh also Russia invading the Ukraine hasn't helped with Russia being an OPEC+ member.

And for the last time it capitalism doesn't require cartels artificially setting prices that don't reflect their real world costs which is more akin to socialism where a goverment sets prices for things that don't reflect the underlying inputs to provide said things!


A properly functioning capitalist system would break up such monopolies.

And bear in mind that a lot of OPEC members are state run organisations or orgs with heavy state involvement!

Conversely you can't have a properly functioning socialist system as they lack markets, which are the only reliable way of turning the massive amout of information out there into prices for goods and services that reflect the inputs to provide then vs the demand for said goods and services.
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Other countries are not having the same problems with fuel cost the UK is ; Spain is 30p per litre cheaper than the UK is right now (my son is in madrid today). Its UK policy problem not a cartel problem.

Green tax is 5% now - stop reading the Daily Mail and blaming everything on `herp derp Greta`. The UK only has 2 working nuclear reactors as of today - that is the problem, cutting taxes for the rich and not building out for the future. Fracking? You want to wreck the limited water supply we have?

Russian Gas - no the UK doesnt use much of it - if Norway turned the taps off, we would be screwed though, from the very next day.
 
Doobedoo said:
No doubt cutting your nose off to spite your face obviously wasn’t that smart and hasn’t altered the situation in Ukraine but that’s a can of worms. Sit all these greedy players around a table and tell them to sort it out. You’ve made enough money over the years, we allow you to profit from planet killing resources now we’re raining you in.
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How does that work in a globally traded open market though?

We can demand lower prices all we want but we're buying our energy in competition with everyone else.

The only way you get away from that is to isolate yourself from the market entirely, only permit use of domestically produced energy and only permit that energy to be used domestically to completely remove any import or export influences.

Not only would that almost certainly spectacularly backfire in a whole host of ways we can't even begin to imagine, we're not even close to being able to be self sufficient these days.

"Just Stop Oil Making Profit" -a lovely sentiment but entirely impractical in the reality of the world we live in.
 
Doobedoo said:
No doubt cutting your nose off to spite your face obviously wasn’t that smart and hasn’t altered the situation in Ukraine but that’s a can of worms. Sit all these greedy players around a table and tell them to sort it out. You’ve made enough money over the years, we allow you to profit from planet killing resources now we’re raining you in.
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Who exactly. Oil companies get oil out of the ground for the sovereign owner of the resource with associated royalties. They don’t control production volume

And remember. They also don’t control demand. People still want to fly away on holiday then complain on the beach about the gas prices back home…
 
Simon said:
Who exactly. Oil companies get oil out of the ground for the sovereign owner of the resource with associated royalties. They don’t control production volume

And remember. They also don’t control demand. People still want to fly away on holiday then complain on the beach about the gas prices back home…
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Do we have a lack of oil? Gas? Electricity?
 
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