Permabanned
This is where numbers and solidarity are key. But regard you can sense the frustration and futility people feel.
Don't Pay UK
- Thread starter dowie
- Start date
Soldato
They are getting it for free after exploration and production costs, licensing and tax have been paid.
I was making a point that all the profit isn’t from heating products so why link overall profits from oil companies to U.K. energy prices ? if £20b is nothing. Why are people worrying about £6.9b?
Let’s looks at the numbers 2022 they have made a £13.1b loss. Tax payer Bail out time surely
Soldato
It is simplistic there are a vast number of factors at play here beyond 'the market sets the price', that argument may hold sway if the market wasn't already regulated and supply wasn't artificially constrained. Simply saying suck it up because 'markets' is just a green light for the producers to gouge eye watering record profits on the back of a global crisis, would it be acceptable for Boeing to increase the cost of missiles because demand has gone up?
Yes. Supply and demand. The lines cross somewhere and it’s basic economics.
The issue with heating is that it’s a contentious issue as people expect to be able to heat their house as well as feed their families. Why no uproar about supermarket prices going up (due to their supplier base costs going up )?
However the narrative about prices going up is wrong. Because the government prices cap has protected people from horrific prices already. However the utility companies are selling at a loss so it’s unsustainable and eventually the tax payer would be picking up the bill when they all go bust
Soldato
Reduce to the max your winter fuel use (obviously all year too) until the prices even out again. Personally I intend to wear a "duvet suit" whilst relaxing in the evenings.
We never did put the thermostat above 16 to 17C and only October to March anyway. Less oven, more microwave, and batch cooking. Scrap daily shower for a sink wash. That is all a citizen can do.
Soldato
They won't need to do that for 1 million people.
Once they've done it to a few of them and everyone starts to realise that there are real consequences to not paying your bills, most will then pay up at that point (probably including some late fees?).
If demand for missiles outstripped supply then you can be sure the price would go up. (ignoring that missiles are a heavily regulated market and they cant just sell to anyone....)
Soldato
And you just know that the ones that shout loudest and organise this stuff won't actually be doing it themselves...
Soldato
Classic lazy British attitude to protesting tbh. If people really wanted change they'd get off their asses and march.
Permabanned
People have already been told that and it’s not good enough. What if you have already been doing a lot of those things? What if you have no more money to spare? It may not affect the likes of me and you very much but many will are facing big problems. Yet alone the problems our economy alwill be facing. Little money left over means no money being spent in the economy. Job cuts and such which further compound the problem.Reduce to the max your winter fuel use (obviously all year too) until the prices even out again. Personally I intend to wear a "duvet suit" whilst relaxing in the evenings.
Only so much blood you can get from a stone.
How is a few months "long enough to increase supply" when increasing supply means building new production infrastructure, new LNG terminals at sea ports and new tankers to ship LNG across seas and oceans, or building new pipelines? These are all multi-year projects.
We're competing with Europe for use of our own domestic (and Norwegian) production. Simples.
Prices will keep rising until demand falls to meet supply. This is pretty fundamental economics. Demand will fall eventually, either because people can no longer afford to heat their homes, or because some industries become unprofitable owing to the high cost of energy.
Permabanned
Sorry I haven’t got time to reply to multi quotes.
We don’t have a supply issue again no one is having their gas or energy supply turned off. Cars are still being filled with petrol. Nothings changed on that front prices haven’t just gone up they’ve skyrocketed.
We don’t have a supply issue again no one is having their gas or energy supply turned off. Cars are still being filled with petrol. Nothings changed on that front prices haven’t just gone up they’ve skyrocketed.
Soldato
That's a very slick website. Wonder who funded that? The Kremlin?
Love that you can Donate £50 to the cause.
Love that you can Donate £50 to the cause.
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Only in the summer though.
Permabanned
Well it’s fairly obvious. They make 6.9b in a quarter that 28b in a year if things stay the same. That’s just profit. So when people are barely treading water, them losing 20b on a financial risk that will made back in less than a year is not really big news. These companies treat it like it’s Las Vegas they want the house (them ) to never lose.I was making a point that all the profit isn’t from heating products so why link overall profits from oil companies to U.K. energy prices ? if £20b is nothing. Why are people worrying about £6.9b?
Let’s looks at the numbers 2022 they have made a £13.1b loss. Tax payer Bail out time surely
International problem primarily caused by *GLOBAL* cartels like OPEC+
...Who were caught out by demand dropping massively during COVID causing the prices of some fuels to collapse (particularly for petroleum) so they reacted, as expected, by vastly cutting back the supply.
Go forward and demand picks up and so does the price and they have no incentive to extract fossil fuels quicker and pay for the investment and wages to do so when they can just charge more for what they are already extracting in their cartels.
OPEC+ countries control 90% odd of proven oil reserves.
The only 'fault' of the UK govement in this regard is going along with the Green agenda for renewables, which has put up domestic energy bills a lot and not giving the go ahead for more domestic fracking.
Something which has been very unpopular with many of the very same people now moaning about paying nearly £2 a litre for petrol with gas and electric prices also soaring.
Oh also Russia invading the Ukraine hasn't helped with Russia being an OPEC+ member.
And for the last time it capitalism doesn't require cartels artificially setting prices that don't reflect their real world costs which is more akin to socialism where a goverment sets prices for things that don't reflect the underlying inputs to provide said things!
A properly functioning capitalist system would break up such monopolies.
And bear in mind that a lot of OPEC members are state run organisations or orgs with heavy state involvement!
Conversely you can't have a properly functioning socialist system as they lack markets, which are the only reliable way of turning the massive amout of information out there into prices for goods and services that reflect the inputs to provide then vs the demand for said goods and services.
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But things won’t stay the same
Permabanned
They will continue to make huge profits though won’t they? We’ve had 2 record quarters in a row.