Doubling up speaker cable, improvement I've noticed

JasonM said:
Here is a question for everyone. Look at the following pair of RCA interconnects.

Providing the rest of your system is resolving, do you think there is any change in sound regardless of what following cable pair is used?
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Just by looking? No.

While the cheaper looking cable would have course ask you to question it's design construction, I bet in any normal setting it would be indistinguishable as well..

I'd only buy higher quality constructed interconnects just for the decrease in likelyhood of oxidisation of the connector and also I'm OK with having slightly more robust screening etc...

I'm fine to have my mind changed, either by double blind testing with my own ears, or through the use of demonstrating the difference using measurement techniques that can be correlated to audible frequencies at levels that are indisputably distinguishable

Actually one aspect I have with my scepticism is that if I was sneaky, I'd deliberately construct the cable to have an appreciable affect on the cable, a tiny notch filter to give a V shaped colouration and people would hear the difference and swear it was amazing..

Reading the soundsguys above I did laugh when they said one of the previous tests had the coat hanger being by far the most preferred over a high end cable..

I appreciate good audio gear, but I've yet to come across any differences yielded through speaker cables/interconnects because I do try to get good VFM but well constructed items, the absolutely largest and indisputable improvements have come from improved DAC/AMPs and Speakers themselves, as well as speaker placement and acoustic handling of the environment.
 
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This one is really going to get you all going.

I've been listening to the new Van Damme Lo-Cap cables (the ones that came today), and my old Van Damme Lo-Cap (with maybe 1000's of hours on it) is identical construction, however the new cables don't sound quite as good as the old one. Old cable is a little warmer, subtle difference but it's there.

I can only put this down to new cables not run in yet.

I know that 95%+ think i'm making all this up. Everything i've put in this thread is the truth. It's the same truth about what PSU or enterprise HDD to buy, where I think Tesla, Nvidia or Apple shares are going. It's the same truth that would tell you how to set you track car up, and what suspension settings you could make. It's same as if I was telling you about software development, and how to code and what neural network model to use.
 
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I wonder if coat hangers need burn in time?

If the people tested on the Sound Guys article thought they sounded good when first used, imagine what they would have thought after thousands of hours!?

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/audio-cable-break-in-science-or-psychological

Interestingly, the New Scientists recently commented on the London Heathrow Hi Fi Show, saying that among the cables selling for up to £30,000 for 6 metres, they found Quad demonstrating their latest speakers to great enthusiasm. The orange cable to the speakers looked oddly familiar. When asked about it, Tony Faulkner, the recording engineer demonstrating them (who'd used the speakers as monitors while recording Saint-Saen's complete works for piano & orchestra, Gramophone's Record of the Year), said of the cables:

"Yes, they would look familiar if you have a garden. Before the show opened we went over the road to the DIY superstore and bought one of those £20 extension leads that Black & Decker sells for electric hedge-cutters. They are made from good, thick copper wire, look nice and sound good to me. The show's been running for three days and no one in the audience has noticed..." - New Scientist Magazine
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Gray2233 said:
I wonder if coat hangers need burn in time?

If the people tested on the Sound Guys article thought they sounded good when first used, imagine what they would have thought after thousands of hours!?
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I have seen coat hangers in use, it was many years ago and people would fit them in place of broken car aerials. I can't remember if the radio signal sounded better the longer the coat hanger was in use however.
 
JasonM said:
This one is really going to get you all going.

I've been listening to the new Van Damme Lo-Cap cables (the ones that came today), and my old Van Damme Lo-Cap (with maybe 1000's of hours on it) is identical construction, however the new cables don't sound quite as good as the old one. Old cable is a little warmer, subtle difference but it's there.

I can only put this down to new cables not run in yet.

I know that 95%+ think i'm making all this up. Everything i've put in this thread is the truth. It's the same truth about what PSU or enterprise HDD to buy, where I think Tesla, Nvidia or Apple shares are going. It's the same truth that would tell you how to set you track car up, and what suspension settings you could make. It's same as if I was telling you about software development, and how to code and what neural network model to use.
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Damnit, I was just thinking you where being honest and not deliberately trolling, but well played sir..
 
JasonM said:
However your believe these cables sound the same is just so wrong. If you were listening to my HiFi system, I could change your view in under 10 seconds, that's how profound the difference is between these cables.
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You must have "golden ears" - honestly I've done a similar back to back comparison several times.

Most recently (2 weeks ago) I bought a cheap Class D amplifier to use with an old spare set of speakers, to use outside in the garden.
To test the amplifier, I used some left over ~2m offcuts of DCSk 16 AWG Pure Copper:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00WG9BV4M

Happy with this, I then bought 30m of Amazon Basics 16 Gauge Speaker wire
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006LW0W5Y

Despite using this for 2x 15m runs, and it not even being pure copper (it's copper coated aluminium), it sounds EXACTLY the same.
 
Armageus said:
You must have "golden ears" - honestly I've done a similar back to back comparison several times.

Most recently (2 weeks ago) I bought a cheap Class D amplifier to use with an old spare set of speakers, to use outside in the garden.
To test the amplifier, I used some left over ~2m offcuts of DCSk 16 AWG Pure Copper:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00WG9BV4M

Happy with this, I then bought 30m of Amazon Basics 16 Gauge Speaker wire
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006LW0W5Y

Despite using this for 2x 15m runs, and it not even being pure copper (it's copper coated aluminium), it sounds EXACTLY the same.
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It's funny you mention DCSK cable, as I run 4mm DCSK on my main system.

Previous I was using whatever cable Yamaha supplied with the speakers in the box (i'm using Yamaha floorstanding speakers). When I switched the 4mm it makes my speakers louder, again it was subtle but it was there, it also had a slight negative effect as it make the treble a little high.

On copper coated aluminium I've noticed difference in this compared to pure copper also, a few years ago I ordered some CCA cable by mistake. My view is the CCA has to be thicker to match the pure copper cable.

But the 16AWG cable it's to thin in my view, i'm curious what wattage speakers are you using this cable on?

Regarding golden ears, you can give me a collection of CD player, or collection of turn tables, and listen to them all, and I will pick out the best ones from the bunch.

Incidentally the best source I've heard was a Pioneer Pl-570 made in late 70's, those turntables sell for well over £1000, I stayed up night in my house listening to Beatles records on it, there is something very special about those old Pioneer high end record players. The sound is almost spiritual, it's like your picking up almost 40 years of whatever was in the record player. The record player had come from an old persons home.

I can tell you the difference between a Maxell chrome tape and a Sony metal tape, of course recorded on a good quality separates tape deck.

Going back to DCSK, this is the reason this thread started. I was going to buy some 2.5mm DCSK cable, however we come out of EU you can't buy it any more, so instead I just doubled up the thinner cable I already had, hence I posted the results on here. And I no longer need 2.5mm as the improvement from doubling is plenty, as it's saved buying better cable.
 
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Armageus said:
A pair of small Denons that are apparently rated at 60 Watts
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If that 60 watt is in RMS, then 16AWG is not enough. I know on paper they say it's fine, however it's to resistive.

Place the speakers so you can sit or stand between them. Then get a 2.5mm cable, for one of your speakers only, or do a double run of the 1.25mm cable.

Then switch the balance on the amp, you should find the speaker with better / thicker cable is sounding better. You may have to walk away from the room, reset your hearing, then come back to listen again.
 
JasonM said:
If that 60 watt is in RMS, then 16AWG is not enough. I know on paper they say it's fine, however it's to resistive.

Place the speakers so you can sit or stand between them. Then get a 2.5mm cable, for one of your speakers only, or do a double run of the 1.25mm cable.

Then switch the balance on the amp, you should find the speaker with better / thicker cable is sounding better. You may have to walk away from the room, reset your hearing, then come back to listen again.
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Don't forget to get a bunch of people around to do blind testing.

"Reset your hearing"

Come on...
 
Gray2233 said:
Don't forget to get a bunch of people around to do blind testing.

"Reset your hearing"

Come on...
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You sometimes have to walk out of the room, say an hour later, then listen again.

When your setting up audio it's possible to get fatigued, so you just have to take a break from it.

I've listened to HiFi systems at 2-3am in the morning, just to re-confirm what I was hearing during the day.
 
JasonM said:
You sometimes have to walk out of the room, say an hour later, then listen again.

When your setting up audio it's possible to get fatigued, so you just have to take a break from it.

I've listened to HiFi systems at 2-3am in the morning, just to re-confirm what I was hearing during the day.
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All by yourself?

That's the thing though bud, without blind testing non of this matters.

You got angry at me in a prior post for suggesting blind testing was a necessity, and there's a few here who just flat out think you're trolling.

I'm suffering from Poe's Law at the moment.
 
I have a set of Edifier active speakers using thin little aluminium wire or something. Shall I put some of my proper copper speaker cabling in and see if I can hear a difference? I may do that tomorrow.

I never considered it an issue but if we’re going with this it should be a considerable upgrade, at least once the cable has burned in…???

I did wire them up to a better DAC once, that did make a big difference to separation, detail, bass control and soundstage. However it did the same on my headphones too and I think that’s an accepted outcome of poor DAC to a higher quality one.

EDIT: To make this even more interesting, the Edifier speakers use one cable to connect the speaker with the amp to the other, so in theory one of the speakers will get a better sound whilst the other will be stuck with whatever internal connection it has. So all I have to do is play something in mono and compare. Simple right?
 
robj20 said:
I think this has got to be a wind up thread. It is entertaining though. No one is this daft... Are they.
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I can't believe this thread is still going lol. I have to agree with you. Using terms like "cable Burn in" and "reset your hearing" come on?? :cry::cry: How could it be anything else only a wind up?
 
alex24 said:
I have a set of Edifier active speakers using thin little aluminium wire or something. Shall I put some of my proper copper speaker cabling in and see if I can hear a difference? I may do that tomorrow.

I never considered it an issue but if we’re going with this it should be a considerable upgrade, at least once the cable has burned in…???

I did wire them up to a better DAC once, that did make a big difference to separation, detail, bass control and soundstage. However it did the same on my headphones too and I think that’s an accepted outcome of poor DAC to a higher quality one.

EDIT: To make this even more interesting, the Edifier speakers use one cable to connect the speaker with the amp to the other, so in theory one of the speakers will get a better sound whilst the other will be stuck with whatever internal connection it has. So all I have to do is play something in mono and compare. Simple right?
Click to expand...

So, did you do this?
 
Those Van Damme Lo-Cap custom 55 RCA cables are sensational, if there is any possible downside there is not much high end roll off that won't suit all setups. Not trolling, but please check other reviews of Lo-Cap 55 cables on the internet.

Anyone with a high quality source (so good Turntable, DAC, CD player, higher end sound card), and using those cheap generic RCA cables is probably missing out. These cables are also not that expensive, 1 meter custom cables can be found under £30, if looked after should cables should last 10's of years and can be transferred between equipment.
 
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