Soldato
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Incidentally I have never played any Dark Souls. Sekiro was my first FromSoftware game.
*** Elden Ring ***
- Thread starter agnes
- Start date
yeah this is the issue with reviews, they just don't align well with me. Zelda was good but never completed it, think it was just too hamgstrung on the switch. Haven't bothered with GoW yet, it's on the list but looks a bit too linear / safe
Soldato
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As it stands currently, GoW is the best game I have played this year. Its leading my own personal GOTY for 2022 though theres a long way to go yet.
Exactly, this game is totally within the prior game series remit. Even a lot easier and more accessible than prior Souls games.
But if you haven't completed or even played a Dark Souls game before it could be a big surprise what the game expects, I will say that they arguably didn't do enough for all new players to ease them in, as by the time you get past a few bosses the game is brutal and unforgiving, basically open World Dark Souls 4, but still not nearly as bad as the prior Dark Souls games as you can always go elsewhere for an easier fight.
There's also a ton of prior knowledge from the Dark Souls games that massively helps in Elden Ring, if you completed Dark Souls 1-3 you already know a huge part of the game, so it's obviously a lot nicer for returning players.
I'm still absolutely loving this game, but just like the original Dark Souls, it seems this game is basically a Marmite experience.
But if you haven't completed or even played a Dark Souls game before it could be a big surprise what the game expects, I will say that they arguably didn't do enough for all new players to ease them in, as by the time you get past a few bosses the game is brutal and unforgiving, basically open World Dark Souls 4, but still not nearly as bad as the prior Dark Souls games as you can always go elsewhere for an easier fight.
There's also a ton of prior knowledge from the Dark Souls games that massively helps in Elden Ring, if you completed Dark Souls 1-3 you already know a huge part of the game, so it's obviously a lot nicer for returning players.
I'm still absolutely loving this game, but just like the original Dark Souls, it seems this game is basically a Marmite experience.
As someone else already said, if you’ve not played any DS games previously then it’s tough going figuring things out.
I’ve not and although I’m quite enjoying it I’ve no idea half the time what the few prompts that pop up actually mean or how to do things.
It’s certainly not helpful for people new to the series!
I’ve not and although I’m quite enjoying it I’ve no idea half the time what the few prompts that pop up actually mean or how to do things.
It’s certainly not helpful for people new to the series!
I do wish there were more useful tooltips and things explained without just assuming the player knows from a previous game. For example I never really played much of the earlier Dark Souls games (didnt get on with them so didnt put much time into them) and I ended up having to google what the attack power stat of 138 + 55 meant. Did it mean it was 138 including a +55 bonus or did it mean that it was 193 and theres been other things that I have had to google to understand what they are for or mean because its not explained ingame.
Soldato
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I think when people say about "this game doesn't hand hold if that's what you're after" are mistaken in thinking that's the issue. In fact, that is partly why I enjoyed the idea of elden rings. I hate games for literally pointing directly the way and then directly where the item is. Much prefer it when a quest is like "upon the hill to the east of the village of korokri, there is a post hidden under a bent tree, here you will find a key that should open the gate to where you want to go"
What that does is give you the information you need, but then leave it up to you to figure out. Skyrim does this, and then shows you any way. Elden ring just assumes you'll stumble upon the tree by chance
I definitely see the appeal of the game, it just needs a little more help for beginners.
I want to like it and find myself now I'm away from it, tempted to keep playing and hoping it clicks
Is there even a quest log in this game?
What that does is give you the information you need, but then leave it up to you to figure out. Skyrim does this, and then shows you any way. Elden ring just assumes you'll stumble upon the tree by chance
I definitely see the appeal of the game, it just needs a little more help for beginners.
I want to like it and find myself now I'm away from it, tempted to keep playing and hoping it clicks
Is there even a quest log in this game?
I think the closest thing might be the notes that you buy from the merchants that you carry around in your backpack, some of them have things like "Rumours are there is a witch living in the tower east of the river, who holds a mighty treasure"
Soldato
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No quest log, no. You either write the quests down yourself, forget about them and get on the with game, or just hope you'll stumble across the next step in the quest chain at some point.
I usually try to follow a quest to the next place I'm directed as soon as I can after I'm given it so at least I hopefully have a travel point nearby and a visual memory to anchor it. I've had plenty of quests I've forgotten about in Souls games, though. I keep meaning to keep a handwritten log, but never get around to it.
I usually try to follow a quest to the next place I'm directed as soon as I can after I'm given it so at least I hopefully have a travel point nearby and a visual memory to anchor it. I've had plenty of quests I've forgotten about in Souls games, though. I keep meaning to keep a handwritten log, but never get around to it.
Associate
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I think the only real genuine quest you get pointed towards is Godrick in the castle, after that you're kind of on your own, which is fine btw and I like the lore that means you actually bother to read notes you pick up to as you say, potentially go and investigate that castle in the east or travel to the big tree you can see on your map. What's the corny saying, its the journey not the destination that makes it interesting, ER is definitely like that, its all the random caves, enemy encounters and dungeons you find on the way to that random castle in the distance that keep this really interesting
Soldato
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How do you feel that style works with this open world? I feel it lends itself more towards a linear style game, as you have limited area to wonder off.
What about tbis. Does anyone feel the beauty of this game is that it's open world? Does it add anything? Would it be better/same/worse if it was more of a linear style?
I feel myself comparing this to botw, given that was the first open world zelda game, and why it was open world over the previous linear style. What's the benefit. I felt they for the most part made it work, as the direction was (from what I remember) pretty clear as you knew you had to do each of the 4 "dungeons" which were visible from great distances and clearly the dungeons. You had in one of those directions, and quests, tasks etc pop up on the way. These required you going all over and distracted you from the main quest, but it felt right.
Sorry to bombard this thread. I hope my views are fair and not too harsh on the game. I'm trying to be considerate and totally do understand why people like this game.
For me it would be worse if it was more of a linear style, I have always loved (and greatly preferred) open world games over linear ones. If any dev was to ask me which way do you want me to develop this game, I'd always answer open world. I think thats one of the reasons that I have so clicked with Elden Ring yet didnt click with the Dark Souls titles. Some of the areas I have been in on Elden Ring have been stunning and I love the world design of the places I have visited so far.
Truth be told, I actually think that if FromSoftware updated the engine, added more lore and went more casual with the combat, they could if they wanted to, rival the Elder Scrolls titles because I feel the world design is that good in ER.
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Associate
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I think it works really well in this game, the previous games in the series were pretty linear, yeah you had slightly open sections of the world and levels i.e. dungeons but you had a pretty clear remit for what you needed to do. This open world style both looks visually stunning and lends itself really well to how the game plays. I'm really enjoying not having 20 quests/side quests popping up on my UI interfering with my ability to just wander around, and the massive draw distance means if I see a tall tower in the distance I can head off towards it, chances are it will have a boss, dungeon or neat treasure in it and its highly likely that on the way i'll encounter another boss, patrol or side dungeon to go and investigate as well.
Its meant my map has become a hotch potch of markers and reminders for me for later to pop back and check out. I love this emergent gameplay it creates as you kind of make your own quests i.e. I'm gonna head towards that tower but also, I need to top up on some souls so if I see a cave i'll head there first for materials and souls - chances are they'll be a boss battle as well in the mix. Its enjoyable and feels far less pressured than a game with an overarching ticking clock or demands on your time to head here now so you can progress the story arc
There's likely 10 or more things that you can miss that make the game so much better once you know them that they don't make clear so in that regard the game isn't that fair to new players, once you have ashes summons figured out and understand weapon levelling, it's a lot easier and you can do both right near the start of the game. Though you can miss the ashes tutorial summoner NPC entirely like I did which will then de-spawn, even as a series veteran I had to look at a guide for that, but what you get from them can still be bought at a store not that much later on, but you do miss out on a whole tutorial.
At the start of the game weapons levelling and ashes summons makes a colossal difference, a totally unlevelled player can still be great with a +10 weapon and a good ashes summon. In Dark Souls games you're forced to learn quicker due to roadblocks, you literally can't continue until you defeat a boss, many quit due to them which is totally understandable. Most everyone who ever completed a Dark Souls game "quit the game" more than once only to come back and love it.
Generally speaking, if you find a nice mob near a respawn place, it doesn't hurt at all to quickly grind a level before moving on. Many bosses have just such mobs right nearby so you can level up if needs be. But levelling weapons and using ashes summons is the major key to the game being a lot easier. No shame in checking a guide for understanding certain aspects with this game.
At the start of the game weapons levelling and ashes summons makes a colossal difference, a totally unlevelled player can still be great with a +10 weapon and a good ashes summon. In Dark Souls games you're forced to learn quicker due to roadblocks, you literally can't continue until you defeat a boss, many quit due to them which is totally understandable. Most everyone who ever completed a Dark Souls game "quit the game" more than once only to come back and love it.
Generally speaking, if you find a nice mob near a respawn place, it doesn't hurt at all to quickly grind a level before moving on. Many bosses have just such mobs right nearby so you can level up if needs be. But levelling weapons and using ashes summons is the major key to the game being a lot easier. No shame in checking a guide for understanding certain aspects with this game.
yeah the first play through will be a bit stumbling in the blind really. From fans will usually make several characters though over the games lifetime
I think FromSoftware has a similar philosophy to GGG with POE. They expect a certain amount of community discovery to happen, people to read up on reddit or wiki pages etc. It's hard to fine out all of the information on your own especially if you are new to the game. Eventually the best weapons / spells etc will be discovered by the speedruners, then you can use some of these for a much easier boss killing run
You can see this with some of the streamers as well, been interesting watching some of them.
Lirik is on something like death 300-400 and still playing through
Asmongold is thinking of quitting as he can't figure out what to do and where to go (but doesn't blame or trash the game)
Ellajaz is taking his time finding everything he can, will probably start working on speed running strats on one of his next characters
Honestly watching Lirik was really refreshing, goes in to a situation, learns the pattern then goes on to beat the boss. Ignores deaths and learns from them
I think FromSoftware has a similar philosophy to GGG with POE. They expect a certain amount of community discovery to happen, people to read up on reddit or wiki pages etc. It's hard to fine out all of the information on your own especially if you are new to the game. Eventually the best weapons / spells etc will be discovered by the speedruners, then you can use some of these for a much easier boss killing run
You can see this with some of the streamers as well, been interesting watching some of them.
Lirik is on something like death 300-400 and still playing through
Asmongold is thinking of quitting as he can't figure out what to do and where to go (but doesn't blame or trash the game)
Ellajaz is taking his time finding everything he can, will probably start working on speed running strats on one of his next characters
Honestly watching Lirik was really refreshing, goes in to a situation, learns the pattern then goes on to beat the boss. Ignores deaths and learns from them
Soldato
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So far (I am at 12 hours played I think) I am finding the open world Souls experience an utter delight. I have always liked the atmosphere of the Souls games and how they use the difficulty and sense of threat to create an oppressive feeling that gels really nicely with the forboding and unsettling environments and creatures that inhabit them. Being able to wander more freely around a whole world that brings this to life has been completely gripping for me. Like others have said, I think having quest markers or similar HUD or map cluttering information would detract from this.
One example that comes to mind is when I was tasked with libertaing some chap's old fort. I didn't really know where it was, other than that he told me it was to the south through a misty wood. So I thought I would head that way and try to find it, or at least activate a nearby site of grace. Sure enough, there was a misty wood and... I was scared. It was a pretty unsettling place. Glowing eyes appearing through the mist, howls and wails, aggressive fauna, some reallllly intimidating giant animals, crumbling structures looming in the darkness. I was gripped with the tension of the setting, trying to make it through but not really knowing if I was on the right track, or how far I had to go. "How much further? Am I going to make it? I shouldn't have come carrying this many runes! C'mon, let's see a site of grace..."
All of that would have been ruined if I could see a quest marker guiding me to it or a quest log giving me precise directions.
Ashes Summoning and weapon levelling? I’ve no idea yet at all!
Always hesitant looking for guides as more often as not they also contain spoilers, which leaves me in a bit of a dilemma.
Muddle on by and hope I can figure it out as I go along, or risk reading accidental spoilers whilst looking online for info.
Non spoilers as it does explain all this about weapon upgrades and the ashes summons in the game within the first hour at most, but not that clearly. Marked for spoilers just in case.
Each weapon can be upgraded by a lot, the upgrade affects base damage and also bonus damage which you get from your stats that tie into a weapon.
The very first trader you meet has an anvil across from him that you can use to upgrade weapons using runes (XP from mobs, etc) and Smithing Stones, you can find them under your menu as Bolstering Items, there are loads scattered about but even a couple so you can get a + 2 or 3 weapon makes a massive difference.
Most weapon upgrades give 4 or 5 times the increase you get from a single level up. The extra stat damage is the low number in brackets. EG 100 (25).
Each weapon shows the stats it affects, EG Str, or Dex, some even are affected by caster stats so you can get bonus damage according to what build you have, clearly daggers better for dex builds, heavy weapons for strength. I've beaten all bosses with the same sword I found at level 3 or so, just levellled it up with me, at +11 it's amazing. Almost any weapon can be amazing with the right build and levelled up.
Ashes summons an NPC is supposed to give you a summoning item and the first summon, but can de-spawn inexplicably like it did with me if you explore too far - later a safe place with a store has both items. You can also find many more summons but she gives you one, or you buy the first cheaply.
Equip a summon and in certain areas you can summon them to fight bosses or hard mobs with you, you can tell this by a shield logo appearing at the left side of the screen. They can be summoned on many outdoor bosses and you can level them up like weapons.
As arcane as that sounds it' s still more simple than Dark Souls summoning was.
The very first trader you meet has an anvil across from him that you can use to upgrade weapons using runes (XP from mobs, etc) and Smithing Stones, you can find them under your menu as Bolstering Items, there are loads scattered about but even a couple so you can get a + 2 or 3 weapon makes a massive difference.
Most weapon upgrades give 4 or 5 times the increase you get from a single level up. The extra stat damage is the low number in brackets. EG 100 (25).
Each weapon shows the stats it affects, EG Str, or Dex, some even are affected by caster stats so you can get bonus damage according to what build you have, clearly daggers better for dex builds, heavy weapons for strength. I've beaten all bosses with the same sword I found at level 3 or so, just levellled it up with me, at +11 it's amazing. Almost any weapon can be amazing with the right build and levelled up.
Ashes summons an NPC is supposed to give you a summoning item and the first summon, but can de-spawn inexplicably like it did with me if you explore too far - later a safe place with a store has both items. You can also find many more summons but she gives you one, or you buy the first cheaply.
Equip a summon and in certain areas you can summon them to fight bosses or hard mobs with you, you can tell this by a shield logo appearing at the left side of the screen. They can be summoned on many outdoor bosses and you can level them up like weapons.
As arcane as that sounds it' s still more simple than Dark Souls summoning was.
Hope that helps.