*** Elden Ring ***

[Tombstone]

OK poor use of literally.

Hes saying he couldnt play it on a mouse and keyboard and the whole "precise" issue, at least to me, suggests a controller would be a better fit.

Theres not enough info in his post for me to judge its content as indicative that he "needs" a controller. He could be terrible with a controller for all we know by the info.

My suggestion to him would be this...

If you are decent with a controller, give that a try instead. If you've tried controllers in the past and not got on with them, then give Elden Ring a go on mouse and keyboard, its entirely doable, and remember as we've already mentioned the combat mechanics in Elden Ring are somewhat more forgiving than Dark Souls, especially if you are new to the souls genre and only played 1 hour on Dark Souls.

 

[V F]

It has to be the setting and the lore why I adore the Souls games because the sheer joy of beating some of the bosses is great but I have never been so angry playing games before.

Funny. That seems to be the attraction on twitch for that. It's seeing the streamers rages so hard getting beat. Here was me thinking it was something special about these specific games.

 

[Amatsubu]

It has to be the setting and the lore why I adore the Souls games because the sheer joy of beating some of the bosses is great but I have never been so angry playing games before.

I think I also like the atmospheric settings and the lore the most and how much can be extracted from them but I also love the more challenging nature of Soulsborne.

I think it's the combination of all those that makes these games so good.

They can get frustrating indeed but nothing too extreme, Tekken vs people online is way more rage-inducing for me

 

[DanF]

new lore vid out, can't watch it yet as still not finished it

 

[Tombstone]

The lore is actually not bad, its pretty interesting and a good foundation for a new IP. The problem with the lore is the way its delivered, in the usual FromSoftware way its delivered in a lot of cryptic and at times , seemingly nonsensical, wording. Actually does dilute the lore a bit but when you read up on the lore its a pretty decent world lore

 

[Amatsubu]

It's not a problem at all, it's trademark From and sets the game apart from the rest. That's what allows all the theories to thrive instead of handing everything on a silver platter and keeps the games alive for years, like Bloodborne which had bat**** crazy lore, more so than this.

Some may not like it but it's here to stay, just like the difficulty.

There's like an 1h 18m detailed explanation and theorising about Bloodborne story on YT where the guy also uses descriptions of items to convincingly string everything together, helps understand why these games are like that and what that allows them to do compared to traditional storytelling. It's not a flaw but a design choice that plays to the games' strengths by not only putting you in a hostile, cryptic world but also making you feel uneasy because you have to work, pay attention and read to understand your role in it and the motivations/backgrounds of those you meet. That's a big part of Soulsborne IMO.

 

[Tombstone]

It's not a problem at all, it's trademark From and sets the game apart from the rest. That's what allows all the theories to thrive instead of handing everything on a silver platter and keeps the games alive for years, like Bloodborne which had bat**** crazy lore, more so than this.

Some may not like it but it's here to stay, just like the difficulty.

There's like an 1h 18m detailed explanation and theorising about Bloodborne story on YT where the guy also uses descriptions of items to convincingly string everything together, helps understand why these games are like that and what that allows them to do compared to traditional storytelling. It's not a flaw but a design choice that plays to the games' strengths by not only putting you in a hostile, cryptic world but also making you feel uneasy because you have to work, pay attention and read to understand your role in it and the motivations/backgrounds of those you meet. That's a big part of Soulsborne IMO.

Yup, problem was the wrong word really. Its more a personal preference of how I like literature to be.

 

[VincentHanna]

The lore is actually not bad, its pretty interesting and a good foundation for a new IP. The problem with the lore is the way its delivered, in the usual FromSoftware way its delivered in a lot of cryptic and at times , seemingly nonsensical, wording. Actually does dilute the lore a bit but when you read up on the lore its a pretty decent world lore

Yes, it's very obtuse IMO.

I don't play these games for the story. If you need a YouTube video to make sense of it, then it wasn't well written in the first place.

I know people think that just makes it more amazing, and some will claim they fully understand everything in the game with no help, but I'm not buying it.

 

[Amatsubu]

Yes, it's very obtuse IMO.

I don't play these games for the story. If you need a YouTube video to make sense of it, then it wasn't well written in the first place.

I know people think that just makes it more amazing, and some will claim they fully understand everything in the game with no help, but I'm not buying it.

No one claims they understand everything fully, never seen such a claim ever. You won''t get an entirely clear picture and you don't even have to. That's the point. The game doesn't force it on you. You can, however, get very far on your own if you want.

You don't need a YT video for anything, that was an example of what can be done with what the games give you. Someone had to make that YT video in the first place and I'm seeing quite a lot of people who are having fun theorising about the stories and stringing it all together so the approach clearly works.

It's not a typical experience, I can appreciate normal storytelling and I can appreciate this and between the two I think the latter is what suits Soulsborne more. If someone thinks it'd work and retain its atmosphere with long cinematics, expositions and drawn-out dialogues with NPCs, then so be it.

To me it wouldn't, and I'm saying that as a person who loves long cinenatics, dialogues and expositions
The game has flaws, like everything out there, but that's not one of them. Or maybe, if it's a flaw, it's a VERY subjective one.

 

[DanF]

Destiny does similar, lore in item descriptions, lots of background info in books, websites etc. To really find out what's going on it's just easier for most to watch one of mynameisbyf vids, nothing wrong with that really.

 

[Tombstone]

If someone thinks it'd work and retain its atmosphere with long cinematics, expositions and drawn-out dialogues with NPCs, then so be it.

I wouldnt necessarily want long cinematics, expositions and drawn-out dialogues. My personal want isnt because of a lack of those, my personal want is that I would want the actual use of language to be better. Some of it simply isnt written well, in a literary sense. Though I suppose at the end of the day its a computer game not a book.

 

[Amatsubu]

I wouldnt necessarily want long cinematics, expositions and drawn-out dialogues. My personal want isnt because of a lack of those, my personal want is that I would want the actual use of language to be better. Some of it simply isnt written well, in a literary sense. Though I suppose at the end of the day its a computer game not a book.

Maybe I'm just not well-versed enough in English, it's not my first language after all.

I'm Polish and I'm also playing in Japanese so I have no idea what's been lost in translation when it comes to item descriptions etc. Japanese is hard to translate accurately.

I remember talking about Sekiro with a bunch of people here and I explained the backstory of a boss and how it connected to Japanese mythology. That was completely lost in English and they were surprised how deep it went.

But yeah, it's a game and I guess anyone attempting literary analysis on a piece of fiction that's been designed to be intentionally obfuscating is bound to be disappointed. This stuff is there to complement the nature of the world, not be in the limelight itself. At least that's how I see it. It's just another of Miyazaki's quirks and obstacles so anyone expecting clear, bog-standard storytelling will instantly dismiss it as badly written but I wouldn't even use such terms here.

 

[SonicSW20]

I wouldnt necessarily want long cinematics, expositions and drawn-out dialogues. My personal want isnt because of a lack of those, my personal want is that I would want the actual use of language to be better. Some of it simply isnt written well, in a literary sense. Though I suppose at the end of the day its a computer game not a book.

The games lore and dialogue was written in Japanese, unfortunately some of the translations are not perfect. An example of that is Ranni's questline, where some dialogue is carries a totally different meaning in English vs Japanese and changes the tone of the whole questline.

Major story spoilers in the video:

 

[Tombstone]

Maybe I'm just not well-versed enough in English, it's not my first language after all.

I'm Polish and I'm also playing in Japanese so I have no idea what's been lost in translation when it comes to item descriptions etc. Japanese is hard to translate accurately.

I remember talking about Sekiro with a bunch of people here and I explained the backstory of a boss and how it connected to Japanese mythology. That was completely lost in English and they were surprised how deep it went.

But yeah, it's a game and I guess anyone attempting literary analysis on a piece of fiction that's been designed to be intentionally obfuscating is bound to be disappointed. This stuff is there to complement the nature of the world, not be in the limelight itself. At least that's how I see it. It's just another of Miyazaki's quirks and obstacles so anyone expecting clear, bog-standard storytelling will instantly dismiss it as badly written but I wouldn't even use such terms here.

The games lore and dialogue was written in Japanese, unfortunately some of the translations are not perfect. An example of that is Ranni's questline, where some dialogue is carries a totally different meaning in English vs Japanese and changes the tone of the whole questline.

Major story spoilers in the video:

Yeah I think its translation that is the crux of the literal oddities. There are some pieces of grammar which just arent correct and dont flow, there are also some words which are used incorrectly within their context. Just to be clear, I am not referring to clear, bog-standard storytelling, nor is that why I am dismissing sections of it as badly written. I've read and enjoyed literary works which are so complex that many people havent made it past page 50, its not complexity that I refer to when I say some sections are badly written, its grammar and word usage. Its something at a far more technical level than the storytelling and something that I think both of you are correct when you say its possibly down to translation, I'm pretty sure it is down to things that work within the Japanese language which just dont translate well into English grammar and sentence construction. Maybe next time round they will make the translations less literal and alter them slightly so as to be more cohesive when used in a non-Japanese language. Its not all of the writing after all, its just pieces here and there which are quite jarring if you are a linguaphile. Thankfully it doesnt detract from the game and its still one of the best games I've played in recent years

 

[Amatsubu]

Yeah, it may well be that and it's possible that I'm not far enough to notice the oddities because I have ways to go.

The game being Japanese and From's insistence on their quirky storytelling ways certainly don't help here but I agree, it's one of the best titles I played in years still.

 

[Simi]

Yes, it's very obtuse IMO.

I don't play these games for the story. If you need a YouTube video to make sense of it, then it wasn't well written in the first place.

I know people think that just makes it more amazing, and some will claim they fully understand everything in the game with no help, but I'm not buying it.

I like the atmosphere, but it's all about gameplay for me. I especially enjoy bonking bosses on the head with a big club

 

[ColdAsIce]

The story is not told well in a coherent fashion. If I was reading a book and had to look up a dictionary to gain the context after each paragraph then the story would not flow well. Don’t mistake this as an attack on the lore itself. Which is very interesting when it’s all stuck together in a YouTube video or down in writing on the wiki. I think the delivery of the story could be improved on personally.

 

[hyperseven]

 

[agnes]

Wife and I just watched this, utterly insane! It'll be sub 10 mins within the week I reckon.

 

[Tombstone]

I dont get it, whats actually happening in this video? He stands there in a block stance and then suddenly he is dropping through the air absolutely miles away?

Oh I see, its some sort of a glitch exploit. You'd think that a basic rule for a speedrun should be that it cant include any glitches or exploits, otherwise its sort of having the fastest person in a Formula One race but it was because that driver was allowed to simply cut across areas off the track.