Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[SDK^]

The critical action the Government can take now is demand the Gas price, which is setting the electricity price for all types of generation, be de-coupled.

A two tier energy pricing system should be created for electricity

1. 42% of electricity in the last 12 months has been generated using gas, so that amount should be priced at the higher gas generated cost.
2. 58% of electricity has come from other types of generation and should be priced much lower,

-> Therefore reducing the overall electricity price to customers by about 43%, with no additional cost to the government or additional taxes required on companies.
*This will only reduce the cost of electricity.

This diagram shows how the above would work:

 

[Doobedoo]

Interesting impact

https://twitter.com/x/status/1622550048671236096

That graph doesn’t quite look right to me. Where has the demand gone from the 5pm period? No increase before or after to reflect either those artificially inflating savings or the actual peak demand which you’d think would either appear before or after. 200mw is also only about 0.5kw per person which is quite low for a peak demand period.

It doesn’t quite look right to me.

 

[Sinbad2000]

That graph doesn’t quite look right to me. Where has the demand gone from the 5pm period? No increase before or after to reflect either those artificially inflating savings or the actual peak demand which you’d think would either appear before or after. 200mw is also only about 0.5kw per person which is quite low for a peak demand period.

It doesn’t quite look right to me.

Not necessarily. People could be turning off TVs, lights, computers etc for the period.

 

[Doobedoo]

Not necessarily. People could be turning off TVs, lights, computers etc for the period.

No as we know the bulk of electricity is in the the heating up of things such as cooking food, washing clothes ect. TVs and lights are relatively low power draw. 5pm is also tea time.

 

[delta0]

That graph doesn’t quite look right to me. Where has the demand gone from the 5pm period? No increase before or after to reflect either those artificially inflating savings or the actual peak demand which you’d think would either appear before or after. 200mw is also only about 0.5kw per person which is quite low for a peak demand period.

It doesn’t quite look right to me.

The peak will have moved to the right. It’s small relative to the full dataset in pink so it wouldn’t have moved the full curve.

 

[Doobedoo]

The peak will have moved to the right. It’s small relative to the full dataset in pink so it wouldn’t have moved the full curve.

That little jump doesn’t really reflect 200mw. The easies way to reduce your demand would’ve been to eat before or after, assuming most people work til 5pm so would be eating after 6pm. You should see a large proportion of that 200mw appear after 6pm is what I would expect?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

That graph doesn’t quite look right to me. Where has the demand gone from the 5pm period? No increase before or after to reflect either those artificially inflating savings or the actual peak demand which you’d think would either appear before or after. 200mw is also only about 0.5kw per person which is quite low for a peak demand period.

It doesn’t quite look right to me.

Its gone all over basically. Many won't have shifted in effect they will simply have not used.
A lot seem to just go candles, to the pub, do other stuff etc, probably switch out of that day as well.
I think the minority are those who heavily demand shift like the small subset we have here.

To be honest i think you being influenced too heavily by preconceived thoughts on what you expect to happen.

One of the things Octopus have been saying is the current one is unfair. People who go to the effort to minimise but go out for the day actually get penalised since they lower their -4 to -1 window and get a reduced payment due to the calculation.

No offence, but I suspect Octopus have a better idea of the usage and change for the group of customers who opted in (seeing as they HAVE to provide this to NG so it can be audited) than you do.

 

[Doobedoo]

Its gone all over basically. Many won't have shifted in effect they will simply have not used.
A lot seem to just go candles, to the pub, do other stuff etc, probably switch out of that day as well.
I think the minority are those who heavily demand shift like the small subset we have here.

To be honest i think you being influenced too heavily by preconceived thoughts on what you expect to happen.

One of the things Octopus have been saying is the current one is unfair. People who go to the effort to minimise but go out for the day actually get penalised since they lower their -4 to -1 window and get a reduced payment due to the calculation.

No offence, but I suspect Octopus have a better idea of the usage and change for the group of customers who opted in (seeing as they HAVE to provide this to NG so it can be audited) than you do.

Possibly but 200mw shouldn’t have disappeared.

Assuming people have all gone to the pub is a little far fetched during a cost of living crisis, so surely the graph should represent the shift in demand not the erosion of demand.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Possibly but 200mw shouldn’t have disappeared.

Assuming people have all gone to the pub is a little far fetched during a cost of living crisis, so surely the graph should represent the shift in demand not the erosion of demand.

Where did I say all?
All I can go on is what I see people post on Octopuses twitter in response.
I gave you some examples of the sorts of thing people post up they have done.
There are plenty more, kids playing dens with torches, people going to bed with meter off for an hour, people meter off reading with a torch/candle, etc etc

I think your missing the point its an isolated day.
There are 100% people doing it for the right reasons and as such changing behaviour.
They aren't shifting demand they are not using it.
But those shifting I bet a far chunk moved stuff to day after.

And its not like the usage is zero for that time, its just dramatically reduced. people still functioning, just doing things differently.
Not having early dinner (not tea grrrr), but maybe cooking something quick to reduce usage.

I think if the pattern was longer, such as a whole week people would do less. Its easy to do for one day.
Hell I even did it on the first one (was pre my solar), waited to cook dinner but because of that did something I could microwave. Hence less total usage and different window.

 

[jpaul]

1. 42% of electricity in the last 12 months has been generated using gas, so that amount should be priced at the higher gas generated cost.
2. 58% of electricity has come from other types of generation and should be priced much lower,

that other type of energy nonetheless attracts cfd taxes that offset the high cost of the gas generated electricity (as part of the cap.)

No increase before or after to reflect either those artificially inflating savings or the actual peak demand which you’d think would either appear before or after

shifts to a different day ? - I'll have that roast meal, or put the washing machine on, tomorrow.

 

[delta0]

That little jump doesn’t really reflect 200mw. The easies way to reduce your demand would’ve been to eat before or after, assuming most people work til 5pm so would be eating after 6pm. You should see a large proportion of that 200mw appear after 6pm is what I would expect?

I think with it being later we certainly cooked things that were quicker and less energy intense. We ended up microwaving some left overs from the day before which would use very little energy. We also cooked on a portable gas hob a few times. There’s also other electrical devices that can’t suddenly use more power to make up for it.

 

[Doobedoo]

I think with it being later we certainly cooked things that were quicker and less energy intense. We ended up microwaving some left overs from the day before which would use very little energy. We also cooked on a portable gas hob a few times. There’s also other electrical devices that can’t suddenly use more power to make up for it.

I’m not saying you’re all wrong and I’m right but that is a huge chunk just completely missing. Shifting washing to the day after is valid assuming they actually do it at 5pm in the first place, not cooking and not having a cup of tea is the most logical, but logically you’d also expect a rise in demand directly after the period ends to somewhat reflect the amount that reduced beforehand.

 

[SDK^]

that other type of energy nonetheless attracts cfd taxes that offset the high cost of the gas generated electricity (as part of the cap.)

Some have cfd contracts, but anyway - that cost recovery doesn't directly reduce the unit price for customers!

 

[Jonnycoupe]

So they've only made record profits then, not mega record profits. Poor sods

Different year!!!

 

[jpaul]

Some have cfd contracts, but anyway - that cost recovery doesn't directly reduce the unit price for customers!

https://www.lowcarboncontracts.uk/sites/default/files/2022-09/LCCC-briefing-on-%20the-CfD-scheme-5-September-2022.pdf

When calculating the price cap for the last quarter of 2022, Ofgem used the forecast for CfD income that LCCC made in June, when setting the parameters for the CfD in that quarter. At that time we forecast an income of £730m for the quarter. That has translated into a reduction in the price cap of £23 for the typical bill payer –

 

[Tone1979]

Yes, that does seem excessive unless you have an EV or a hot tub (or electric heating / electric showers)

Wife and I both work from home, 2 kids under 10 and our annual usage is 3000kWh

thanks for this. Still looking into it, though I changed to Octopus today and saved £120 per month. Happy days, thanks forum!!!!

 

[flea.rider]

so i received this from octopus ..
Hi, this is Octopus Energy. It's our job to help you keep your account in good shape, and make sure you don't build up too much credit or debt on your account balance.
We've just reviewed your account and your monthly payments are about right. However, your account balance is currently
£35.22
behind where we'd expect it to be at this time of year.
The simplest way to get your balance back on track is with a
one-time payment
of £35.22 on a credit or debit card.

so sent them this
hi pete
if you guys are that hard up for £35.22 i'll pay it .. ??
but lets see if it's not straight by end of the month and warmer weather ?
thx

and got this .,.
Thank you for getting in touch.

We will keep your payments at the current amount of £55.00 and look to do a review in a few months.

Kind regards,

 

[413x]

so i received this from octopus ..
Hi, this is Octopus Energy. It's our job to help you keep your account in good shape, and make sure you don't build up too much credit or debt on your account balance.
We've just reviewed your account and your monthly payments are about right. However, your account balance is currently
£35.22
behind where we'd expect it to be at this time of year.
The simplest way to get your balance back on track is with a
one-time payment
of £35.22 on a credit or debit card.

so sent them this
hi pete
if you guys are that hard up for £35.22 i'll pay it .. ??
but lets see if it's not straight by end of the month and warmer weather ?
thx

and got this .,.
Thank you for getting in touch.

We will keep your payments at the current amount of £55.00 and look to do a review in a few months.

Kind regards,

Yeah I agree. I'm 150 in debt which is exactly what I'd assume was normal this time of year.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Yeah I agree. I'm 150 in debt which is exactly what I'd assume was normal this time of year.

Depends when your anniversary date is from what BG told me.
They said mine was April as that is when they would read meters (if they physically needed to) so my account would be targeted to be zero at that point in time

 

[jpaul]

account credit come April when the £69/m is no longer credited, £3K epg cuts in, in conjunction with current, relative warmth, that'll mean my monthly energy cost increases.