Tbh I'm sure some of these people would rather the building authentically fell to ruin than be updated in any way. Their thinking is totally at odds to the world we live in.
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
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Soldato
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Yeah or maybe it doesn't and you wish you'd bought it 3 years ago?
Hard to say. Tech is always moving on basically everything.
If staying long term in the house they're great.
They will probably add some value, especially with elevated prices.
Batteries are reasonably transportable if new buyer doesn't want them.
If your current tariff is good it makes less financial sense, but most people are sat on SVR which isn't good.
I'd say repayment under 10 years is a fair shout for most, and maybe sooner depending on prices.
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The value for me is a "it depends"
Someone like 413x has a solid setup his heating costs are not that bad and because of that the savings from a heat pump would struggle to overcome cost to get it fitted.
But then someone like me who likely needs a heating rehaul anyway, it would make more sense. But then again my home in my opinion needs its insulation sorting out before the heating system. Once thats done, who knows then maybe the boiler I have will suddenly become economical to run as it wouldnt be fighting against so much heat loss.
Someone like 413x has a solid setup his heating costs are not that bad and because of that the savings from a heat pump would struggle to overcome cost to get it fitted.
But then someone like me who likely needs a heating rehaul anyway, it would make more sense. But then again my home in my opinion needs its insulation sorting out before the heating system. Once thats done, who knows then maybe the boiler I have will suddenly become economical to run as it wouldnt be fighting against so much heat loss.
Isn't the current tariff still about the same?
If heat pumps are 3x as efficient per kWh but electric is 3x as expensive as gas per. KWh then there is no current benefit whatever the tariff of those ratios are maintained?
I believe its about 3x more efficient for ASHP
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Soldato
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Sorry I thought we were talking about Solar.
For heat pumps I agree, no sense buying now if you can avoid it, wait for new better ones to come out, more adoption = cheaper to buy and better tech.
Improvements in solar are minor, I'll shut up now!
Oh yeah for me it's a no brainer at the moment. I mean I can't even move house really until my fix ends as can't take it with you.
My electric is 4x my gas.
Soldato
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I think most people would agree that regardless of ASHP, gas, oil or open flame fire the 1st thing to get right in any property before changing the heating system is the insulation.
once you have a suitably insulated house then you can work out how many kWh of energy are needed to heat it and then plan your heating system type and size accordingly.
once you have a suitably insulated house then you can work out how many kWh of energy are needed to heat it and then plan your heating system type and size accordingly.
Sorry I thought we were talking about Solar.
For heat pumps I agree, no sense buying now if you can avoid it, wait for new better ones to come out, more adoption = cheaper to buy and better tech.
Improvements in solar are minor, I'll shut up now!
Agree with that. Solar or ASHP? Solar for sure,
This is the problem, people have for ages been treating gas costs as a constant.
Thats why I find that graph nonsensical as gas central heating costs vary wildly from property to property. Insulation will obviously be a factor yes, but also the type of boiler.
On tracker though electric is probably closer to 4-5x cost of gas right now so even worse for anyone on a tracker tariff. But I suppose the flipside if you ok just heating your property off peak on a time of use tariff, and dont mind living in the residual heat (with good insulation will last for hours), then the multiplier changes again.
Soldato
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That is sensible, no point having cheap running heating if your house leaks heat straight back out.
Anyone else finding the cost is normalising? I now look at the IHD before going to bed and go "Yep, spent £10 today, normal day". 2 months ago I was all "*%&$ we've spent £10. No heating, cooking or washing for the rest of the week"*
* Clearly didn't get my own way as Im still married
* Clearly didn't get my own way as Im still married
Agreed, we need a push for double glazing etc. and until that hits 90s coverage we shouldnt be talking about subsidised heat pumps.
Soldato
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Soldato
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Hmmm I dont know
Should we socialise the costs of low quality housing vs newer housing, I would personally say no.
I mean when you buy an older period property with high ceilings, solid walls, old windows and bills to match you did that from choice.
When someone else compromises on them and buys a new build why should the older building be improved at everyones cost. Is the new build person going to get their ceilings heightened, their garden made larger etc?
Should we socialise the costs of low quality housing vs newer housing, I would personally say no.
I mean when you buy an older period property with high ceilings, solid walls, old windows and bills to match you did that from choice.
When someone else compromises on them and buys a new build why should the older building be improved at everyones cost. Is the new build person going to get their ceilings heightened, their garden made larger etc?
Its socialised one way or other, if its not funded, then thee bills get subsidised instead, except the difference is the bills will be perpetual as long as energy costs are high whilst infrastructure has a permanent effect so cheaper in the long run and the higher spending power of consumers goes back in the economy as well.
What do you suggest the solution is for poor people and for people who rent a property the LL wont invest in?
Not sure also how you can compare a bigger garden to heating
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Soldato
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Its socialised one way or other, if its not funded, then thee bills get subsidised instead, except the difference is the bills will be perpetual as long as energy costs are high whilst infrastructure has a permanent effect so cheaper in the long run.
What do you suggest the solution is for people and for people who rent a property the LL wont invest in? Was there a problem with subsidised panels?
Not sure also how you can compare a bigger garden to heating
I was talking about purchasing. When purchasing part of the valuation of a house is the state of it, and as such if its got old tatty leaky windows they would be a devaluing factor.
So someone buying a modern build will typically get better in those areas but lose out in regards eg size of garden.
We shouldn't be subsidising those people.
In regards leases its far easier to impose restrictions on the owner again. You can't let without having say modern levels of loft insulation, or double glazing. Set a date in say 2025 for it to be complete.
I'm not sure how you can jump to perpetually higher bills and support since this is a very new thing. Its already being reversed out in effect.
Subsidised panels were trying to move technology forwards, as are heat pumps. New tech is always expensive and likely to see later improvements.
Double glazing isn't new tech
I was talking about purchasing. When purchasing part of the valuation of a house is the state of it, and as such if its got old tatty leaky windows they would be a devaluing factor.
So someone buying a modern build will typically get better in those areas but lose out in regards eg size of garden.
We shouldn't be subsidising those people.
In regards leases its far easier to impose restrictions on the owner again. You can't let without having say modern levels of loft insulation, or double glazing. Set a date in say 2025 for it to be complete.
I'm not sure how you can jump to perpetually higher bills and support since this is a very new thing. Its already being reversed out in effect.
Subsidised panels were trying to move technology forwards, as are heat pumps. New tech is always expensive and likely to see later improvements.
Double glazing isn't new tech
But how else can you bring these old houses up? It's not going to happen without giving money for energy efficiency.
If the agenda is to improve carbon footprint free money is needed for domestic premises. It just won't happen otherwise
Government could I suppose take part ownership, so when property sold they get their money back? Its in effect then a loan.I was talking about purchasing. When purchasing part of the valuation of a house is the state of it, and as such if its got old tatty leaky windows they would be a devaluing factor.
So someone buying a modern build will typically get better in those areas but lose out in regards eg size of garden.
We shouldn't be subsidising those people.
In regards leases its far easier to impose restrictions on the owner again. You can't let without having say modern levels of loft insulation, or double glazing. Set a date in say 2025 for it to be complete.
I'm not sure how you can jump to perpetually higher bills and support since this is a very new thing. Its already being reversed out in effect.
Subsidised panels were trying to move technology forwards, as are heat pumps. New tech is always expensive and likely to see later improvements.
Double glazing isn't new tech
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Natural Gas down 76% from the high in Aug 22, doubt we will see it down 76%.
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I’d just like some options for period properties. I don’t mind the cost so government subsidies are good but not entirely necessary.
I want well trained people within industry schemes to do the work so I’m neither ripped off or left with a terrible product. Hetas, FENSA etc are all useless and members can and do install terrible products not well put together and not wel installed. These membership groups encourage complacency which is bad for everyone.
I want well trained people within industry schemes to do the work so I’m neither ripped off or left with a terrible product. Hetas, FENSA etc are all useless and members can and do install terrible products not well put together and not wel installed. These membership groups encourage complacency which is bad for everyone.