Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Mickie said:
Overly concerned with minor details. I bet you guys complain about the unrealistic mileage of a new car, feeling hard done by because the weather hasn’t Been included as a factor, what is the average rainfall in a year in the uk. Have you factored in a plane might cover the solar a few times a month? Have you adjusted for inflation? Did you know labour costs in southern England are £20,000 an hr?

Do your own research next time. Karen.
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The sun not shining for most of the day or year. Yeh a minor detail. :cry:

When I have no power and have to buy from the grid because the sun ain't out and I didn't buy any batteries (and even if i did wouldnt get fully charged in winter), just a minor inconvenience.
 
Mickie said:
I don’t sell solar panels, I’m not here to make money or harm people. Why would I lie about the cost of fitting solar panels.

If you don’t have any money laying around then it’s not for you if it takes you 5-10 years to payback. The same as if you’re unable to save any money after being paid from working you’ll not be able to afford a 75%-80% increase in your electricity in October.
So I wouldn’t worry about what I’ve got to say. You’d be better off using your energy on having a riot in London.
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Why does not having £16k lying around for solarean won't be able to afford electricity and gas in October? That has zero correlation

And even if I have £16k why would a 12year return make sense necessarily. What if I move in 5yr and then I would have been better off not installing solar myself and just paying the additional cost of energy use and save myself £7-£8k.

The point has been since start of this conversation
  • Solar isn't affordable by everyone just cause they can absorb the energy cost
  • The installation and rate of return is not balanced to make it viable for most
  • The upfront outlay for solar is prohibitively high
 
ltron said:
They claim their plan would reduce the £693 increase in energy bills we are paying on average now by £600 for the poor, pensioners and 'the squeezed middle'; so we would pay an extra £93 instead of an extra £693 on energy (excluding Sunak's loan and the council tax relief which doesn't even apply to the poorest). To put it in percentages that would be approximately a 7% increase instead of a 54% increase in the energy bill for the average family. Everyone else would get £200 off instead of £600, but this would be to keep and it doesn't have to be paid back. They would also reverse the NI tax hike.
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They would also vow to plant another plantation of money trees.
 
Sasahara said:
More bad journalism from the BBC. 18 times is completely irrelevant fact as England hardly sends any electricity to Scotland, so of course it's going to be may x the amount. If nothing was sent it would be infinite x the amount.
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I suppose that example may be poor. It would be good to know kWh to make a better comparison.

What I took from the whole article was that Scotland seems self sufficient in electricity (overall Nett Exporter) and they are installing battery farms in various places to capture excess generation for release later on when required.

I will say they will need more generation as people switch to electric cars but starting off with a base level of exceeding total consumption is a good start.

Granted the natural climate/terrain/coastline works in Scotland's favour for this.
 
Scotland is unlikely to be self sufficient for electricity. They only have 2 non renewable power stations Hunterston and Peterhead. That's about 3,300MW at full load. Scotland is approximately 5 million people and the rule of thumb is 1kW per person for peak demand. So Scotland would be routinely 1,700MW short when the wind wasn't blowing in the winter. Which happens.

Hunterston will be gone in May 2022 so the peak gap grows to 2,900MW short. Which for the foreseeable future will be provided from elsewhere within the UK.

Yes Scotland benefits hugely from the largesse of renewable policy in the UK but Scotland it is a net exporter, it is not self sufficient.
 
Trifid said:
Not the point. Wind turbines can easily be built on land and saying they are 'ugly' is a poor excuse for not doing so.
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All of your examples are simply not comparable as they need to be built on the land!

The fact is wind turbines are actually more efficient offshore and generate more power., the aesthetic aspect of not sticking them all over the countryside is an added benefit in my eyes.
 
Firestar_3x said:
All of your examples are simply not comparable as they need to be built on the land!

The fact is wind turbines are actually more efficient offshore and generate more power., the aesthetic aspect is a major benefit in my eyes.
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Must cost a bomb and be very disruptive to build off shore surely?
 
The £200 loan (because that's what it is) is something nobody asked for, it's a short term bandage for a bigger issue that come October as bills will be 24% higher it wont even scratch the surface. Also as we are getting this £150 rebate from the council we have noticed the council tax has increased by £20 that's a 12% increase. I really don't want to say what will happen but i think a massive recession is going to happen, with the cost of living so high people wont be able to spend any money therefore unfortunately hospitality will take a hit, with them just coming out of the Covid issues people will decide to stay in.

This will also affect the travel sector with people deciding to get those cheap deals on the Sunday paper for butlins than a luxury all inclusive holiday, Technology for example TV's people that normally get the newest TV's ect will hold onto the older TV or Mobile phones. Motor Trade with Second Hand Cars being so high (50% increase) due to semiconductor shortage, people will decide to keep their vehicle than trade it in and in addition of Fuel Prices people will either relocate to a job that offers WFH / Hybrid the one thing the Government wanted was returning to office.
 
Firestar_3x said:
All of your examples are simply not comparable as they need to be built on the land!

The fact is wind turbines are actually more efficient offshore and generate more power., the aesthetic aspect of not sticking them all over the countryside is an added benefit in my eyes.
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They are comparable as we need energy just as much as we need motorways. They are cheaper to build on land and can be built on land. It's not even like they are invisible off shore either, you can clearly see them a few miles away.


Your argument is they are ugly and I therefore counteract your argument with no they are not. As you can see, it is paper thin and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.
 
dLockers said:
Must cost a bomb and be very disruptive to build off shore surely?
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Yes it not without disadvantages, costs more to build, harder to maintain, support infrastructure costs more, however they generate more power and that power is more consistent, you can also build significantly more turbines together which boosts output.

Current 2020 data suggest that the price of electricity from wind has fallen by 44-78% from 2010, reaching a global weighted-average cost of USD 0.051-0.099/kWh for onshore and USD 0.087-0.115/kWh for offshore (IRENA, 2019).
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I think the gap between the haves and the have nots is the widest it's ever been. I also think within the 'haves' there is an enormous gap between the top and the bottom.

I highly doubt we'll have a recession as the 'haves' at the top end have enough to keep everything going and too much to lose, and the middle portion of the 'haves' are too aspirational to stop spending.
 
dave1983 said:
The £200 loan (because that's what it is) is something nobody asked for, it's a short term bandage for a bigger issue that come October as bills will be 24% higher it wont even scratch the surface. Also as we are getting this £150 rebate from the council we have noticed the council tax has increased by £20 that's a 12% increase. I really don't want to say what will happen but i think a massive recession is going to happen, with the cost of living so high people wont be able to spend any money therefore unfortunately hospitality will take a hit, with them just coming out of the Covid issues people will decide to stay in.
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Council Tax for Andover has increased approximately 3.3%.
 
Only see the occasional wind turbine round here, never seen an actual wind farm on land.

You need quite a lot of land for a farm so offshore makes sense, the cost of installing is likely outweighed by being able to install more in one place.

I saw one company was looking to add a tidal generator to the concrete base of a wind turbine, that would guarantee at least some energy production when winds drop.
 
dLockers said:
I think the gap between the haves and the have nots is the widest it's ever been. I also think within the 'haves' there is an enormous gap between the top and the bottom.

I highly doubt we'll have a recession as the 'haves' at the top end have enough to keep everything going and too much to lose, and the middle portion of the 'haves' are too aspirational to stop spending.
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Correct. The uber wealthy back in the day were so disconnect from the peasants and had so little respect or understanding for people of that status that a revolt was probably a complete shock and unforeseen.

These days the uber wealthy run the world and will make sure that the little people have just enough to lose that the idea of revolution is just a bit too hard to stomach.

As someone in the middle I hate almost every aspect of the way modern society is run. Its corruption and greed wrapped up as free markets and opportunity. I however have been lucky enough that I have a good lifestyle with reasonable disposable income and a lot to lose if the **** hit the fan. I'm one of the people doing OK but I have no idea how some people are managing. I'm pretty sure that this awful system will keep rumbling on until climate change really kicks off and all bets are off at that point. Countries will war. Millions will be displaced and go hungry and the thought that the people who have contributed most to the ****** up situation are those that are the most insulated from it will go down like a lead balloon.

Probably only got 20-30 years for that as well.
 
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