Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[MCFC_ANDY]

100%, but maybe not 100%, one thing state owned has taught us was under investment, maybe when maggie sold it off would have been better to limit profits to a reasonable margin, rather than companies like shell making over 10billon per quarter

 

[LabR@t]

Fury as British Gas owner Centrica's 'obscene' half-year profits increase FIVE-FOLD to £1.34 BILLION as it's revealed UK's household energy bills could rocket to £500 per month after Russia cut Europe's gas supplies
+13

The bumper operating profit for the six months ending in June is up from £262m a year earlier.




Nice profits

 

[the shadow]

 

[LabR@t]

I'm not saying give everyone free energy is the solution as it has to be paid for somewhere, but imo gov can definitely do more.

This may be pie in the sky thinking, but some thoughts:

VAT could be cut or capped, I think it's 5% VAT, when bills are 4 x higher than last year, the VAT is also a lot higher. I don't think removing it's a good idea as clearly the VAT is there for a reason, but it seems like it's scaled well out of proportion at the moment.

I think we still pay a green energy fee which is also a % of the unit costs, this definitely could be scrapped short term. With unit prices high, private investment or even public funded investment into more green energy should be a priority, and any such projects would be profitable on their own merit.

I note that some energy producing firms are reporting record profits and paying out shareholder dividends whilst this is certainly a growing crisis, it seems to be at odds with current events.

Lastly I guess unit pricing could be scaled somehow? the more you use, the more you pay for units? Would encourage people to use less and find ways to cut usage if they can. This could be tricky to enforce.

I need more energy than someone who lives alone how do you factor that in?

 

[fez]

Being able to afford the insane charges is not the point. The charges should never have got this high in the first place. How high do they have to go before you judge your personal financial situation to be at risk, only then you will act?

What should the charges be at? We buy energy on a global market. The only way other countries are paying any less is if the government are subsidising energy or forcing companies to make no money at all/lose a lot, in which case everyone is paying for it one way or another.

My point is that there will be a large number of people who would refuse to pay their energy bills regardless of financial situation if they could get away with it. Thats not good.

 

[danlightbulb]

What should the charges be at? We buy energy on a global market. The only way other countries are paying any less is if the government are subsidising energy or forcing companies to make no money at all/lose a lot, in which case everyone is paying for it one way or another.

My point is that there will be a large number of people who would refuse to pay their energy bills regardless of financial situation if they could get away with it. Thats not good.

Your describing the current market, which is broken.

Whilst I agree there are no quick fixes, change is needed. This is a protest for that.

If we do nothing then nothing changes.

Every country should have energy security for its own people first (basically at cost price plus a margin which is enough to pull in investment), then export what is left. Failure to do that is a failure of government strategy.

The energy 'market' has been used as a cash cow at the expense of resilience. No-one voted for that directly and the truth has been hidden from us.

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

dont forget ofgem have a lot to do with this as well, we getting charged like 100quid or near enough for those failed companies, then you have like nearly 200 quid of government green levies, plus the vat.
ofgem have a lot to answer for, another useless quango

Ofgem branded ‘incompetent’ as BEIS select committee calls for energy efficiency and reforms

Ofgem has proved “incompetent as the regulatory authority” according to a new report from the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) select committee.

www.current-news.co.uk

 

[HungryHippos]

I need more energy than someone who lives alone how do you factor that in?

I'm not saying there will be a perfect system, but ultimately gov will know how many people live at your address based on census or voting things, for the most part anyway.

I'm not even saying it should be done, just that it could be done. There will be people using way more than anyone else, I use a fair bit (though I am trying to offset that myself with solar) but my figures will look tiny compared to some households.

I think often people don't realise what is using up power as well and they're wasteful with it, I've started hibernating my PC when not using it.

My other points stand though, due to increased prices paid, VAT and green levy are both up massively when fundamentally they don't need to be.

 

[fez]

Your describing the current market, which is broken.

Whilst I agree there are no quick fixes, change is needed. This is a protest for that.

If we do nothing then nothing changes.

Every country should have energy security for its own people first (basically at cost price plus a margin which is enough to pull in investment), then export what is left. Failure to do that is a failure of government strategy.

Its never as simple as people make out.

You will struggle to have a private energy sector without it being allowed to operate as a collection of private companies. You can run it as a public sector but then you have different issues. Public sector is fantastically poorly run in many areas and lets say the following happens.

We have public energy companies and the price of energy quadruples but because its publicly owned we decide to keep the increase to 5% in line with the increased cost to actually generate it ourselves. No one gives a crap about energy usage and we use it as usual because the price is low. We could have had people try and use less and then sell that excess on the global markets for billions but instead we are just keeping it cheap for ourselves. Is that good?

What about companies that are posting large profits and a large chunk of that is coming from activities completely unrelated to domestic energy delivery? Is that OK or should they subsidise our energy from their other market sectors?

Its never as simple as people like to make out.

Yes there are things that should be done but the radical ideas and misinformation going around isn't helping find a fair and sensible solution.

 

[Darujhistan]

dont forget ofgem have a lot to do with this as well, we getting charged like 100quid or near enough for those failed companies, then you have like nearly 200 quid of government green levies, plus the vat.
ofgem have a lot to answer for, another useless quango

Ofgem branded ‘incompetent’ as BEIS select committee calls for energy efficiency and reforms

Ofgem has proved “incompetent as the regulatory authority” according to a new report from the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) select committee.

www.current-news.co.uk

"Ofgem branded as incompetent" - Working as intended then. Like all the tory "watchdogs".

 

[danlightbulb]

Its never as simple as people make out.

You will struggle to have a private energy sector without it being allowed to operate as a collection of private companies. You can run it as a public sector but then you have different issues. Public sector is fantastically poorly run in many areas and lets say the following happens.

We have public energy companies and the price of energy quadruples but because its publicly owned we decide to keep the increase to 5% in line with the increased cost to actually generate it ourselves. No one gives a crap about energy usage and we use it as usual because the price is low. We could have had people try and use less and then sell that excess on the global markets for billions but instead we are just keeping it cheap for ourselves. Is that good?

What about companies that are posting large profits and a large chunk of that is coming from activities completely unrelated to domestic energy delivery? Is that OK or should they subsidise our energy from their other market sectors?

Its never as simple as people like to make out.

Yes there are things that should be done but the radical ideas and misinformation going around isn't helping find a fair and sensible solution.

I agree its not simple, but a regulated model has worked fairly well in the water sector for the last 30 years. Regional companies produce water regionally and supply it, with price protections in place. Still private companies, still undertaking social benefit projects and major capital investment, still getting good credit ratings and generating (regulated) returns for shareholders.

Why cant we self generate our own energy supply and that be enough? Why do we even need a global market at all? Energy shouldn't be a cash cow, it is an enabler of productivity not productivity unto itself.

 

[Darujhistan]

Public sector is fantastically poorly run in many areas and lets say the following happens.

And the private sector isn't? look at the railways...worse than they ever were.

Why is it in this country running a Public sector service badly gets far more attnetion than an ex-Public Sector service run worse than ever before by the Private Sector?

 

[Darujhistan]

How any govt can allow itself to be potentially held to ransom by foreign govt's over something essential a spower is beyond me.

This all started 40 yerars ago when the tories destroyed the coal industry out of spite, but of course never replaced that internal supply, NOT ONE industrialised nation closed down coal - we did though. Now look where we are...

 

[200sols]

I agree its not simple, but a regulated model has worked fairly well in the water sector for the last 30 years. Regional companies produce water regionally and supply it, with price protections in place. Still private companies, still undertaking social benefit projects and major capital investment, still getting good credit ratings and generating (regulated) returns for shareholders.

Why cant we self generate our own energy supply and that be enough? Why do we even need a global market at all? Energy shouldn't be a cash cow, it is an enabler of productivity not productivity unto itself.

Still polluting the rivers and seas with raw sewage still not fixing leaks.

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

there are mothballed coalpits that can be reactivated easily and quick, but the green lobby will be up in arms, same goes for fracking although that would take a yr at least to come on stream, but same again, its this drive to net zero as wll, its being done to fast, needs to be slowed and lets get ourself energy sufficient first

 

[Darujhistan]

Still polluting the rivers and seas with raw sewage still not fixing leaks.

Minimum investement they can get away with, maximum profit.

 

[200sols]

there are mothballed coalpits that can be reactivated easily and quick, but the green lobby will be up in arms, same goes for fracking although that would take a yr at least to come on stream, but same again, its this drive to net zero as wll, its being done to fast, needs to be slowed and lets get ourself energy sufficient first

Nope. If you think this is bad then think again. Runaway climate change would be 1000x worse.

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

Nope. If you think this is bad then think again. Runaway climate change would be 1000x worse.

haha, i know you rather folk die, thats typical green response, **** everyone as long as we get to net zero

 

[200sols]

haha, i know you rather folk die, thats typical green response, **** everyone as long as we get to net zero

Just facts. We should have invested in nuclear not coal...

 

[touch]

there are mothballed coalpits that can be reactivated easily and quick

And what do you plan to do with the coal after you've mined it?
There's hardly any coal fired power stations left and very few houses have coal fires now.