Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Soldato
Joined
2 May 2011
Posts
11,960
Location
Woking
The hot water would just be circulated back into the heating loop with minimal "reheating" applied if the return water is hot... No storage tank here. It's all on-demand.

That's not efficient. I used to think the same. Here's an analogy we use at work - you're delivering 100 logs from London to Glasgow. You drive up and drop off 20 logs. You drive back down, get 20 more logs, and then drive back up again. You drop off 20 logs. You drive back down again and get another 20 logs. Then go back up and deliver the 20. You repeat this until all 100 logs are delivered. Would it not have been more efficient to drop off all the logs at once? That's what you want your heating system to do. You want maximum heat transfer from your heat emitters. So, the water coming out of the return pipe on your radiators should be cold. Unfortunately, radiators in the UK are particularly poorly balanced.

When it comes to boilers, this doesn't cause a massive problem although it could easily prevent a condensing boiler condensing, making it less efficient than it could be. For low carbon heat sources like CHP or heat pumps (available domestically, unlike CHPs), they will not operate if the return temperature back to them is excessively high.

In the UK, we've been mollycoddled by boilers that will run regardless of how **** your system is. It's this kind of "new" thinking we need to apply if we are to reduce energy consumption in our homes.
 
Associate
Joined
26 Oct 2002
Posts
599
Location
Notts
That £12 is an extra meal for some people.

We managed to nearly halve our electric usage so a considerable saving I'm sure others could make changes that don't require to much effort to achieve similar

How much electricity did you use?
For this period, your average usage was
6 kWh/day
Last year, in the same period, your average usage was
11 kWh/day
 
Associate
Joined
19 Nov 2021
Posts
998
Location
Portsmouth
That's not efficient. I used to think the same. Here's an analogy we use at work - you're delivering 100 logs from London to Glasgow. You drive up and drop off 20 logs. You drive back down, get 20 more logs, and then drive back up again. You drop off 20 logs. You drive back down again and get another 20 logs. Then go back up and deliver the 20. You repeat this until all 100 logs are delivered. Would it not have been more efficient to drop off all the logs at once? That's what you want your heating system to do. You want maximum heat transfer from your heat emitters. So, the water coming out of the return pipe on your radiators should be cold. Unfortunately, radiators in the UK are particularly poorly balanced.

When it comes to boilers, this doesn't cause a massive problem although it could easily prevent a condensing boiler condensing, making it less efficient than it could be. For low carbon heat sources like CHP or heat pumps (available domestically, unlike CHPs), they will not operate if the return temperature back to them is excessively high.

In the UK, we've been mollycoddled by boilers that will run regardless of how **** your system is. It's this kind of "new" thinking we need to apply if we are to reduce energy consumption in our homes.
While true, the boiler never gets into its efficient condensing mode and thus it costs you more money to run. Plus it’s constantly off, on, off, on, off, on. Etc.
Interesting stuff, thanks both, it's always school days, right?

So from what I read, for condensing mode to kick in the return needs to be below about 55 degrees? So if the outflow is 65 or so, chances are pretty good given the fact that the installation is new, new rads etc, that the return temp is going to be below 55.
Does the same condensing mode also work for heating up cold water for the taps? (If so, I assume I don't need to worry about it, as for the cold water to be coming in at 55 would probably mean that the world is on fire :D)
 
Caporegime
Joined
5 Sep 2010
Posts
25,568
seems so less I doubt it.

you could sit int he dark and save 25watts or whatever but who wants to be doing all this tiny petty stuff, will just drive you crazy for the sake of a few pence a day.

switch one thing in your shopping basket to a cheaper version instead
You can turn things off and change your shopping habits. Double savings.

I can save more than that from wearing the same clothes multiple times without washing them.
And...

bedding changed every 1-2 months.
 
Soldato
Joined
2 May 2011
Posts
11,960
Location
Woking
Interesting stuff, thanks both, it's always school days, right?

So from what I read, for condensing mode to kick in the return needs to be below about 55 degrees? So if the outflow is 65 or so, chances are pretty good given the fact that the installation is new, new rads etc, that the return temp is going to be below 55.
Does the same condensing mode also work for heating up cold water for the taps? (If so, I assume I don't need to worry about it, as for the cold water to be coming in at 55 would probably mean that the world is on fire :D)

I find it interesting :) so it'll completely depends on how well your TRVs are operating. You want a really slow flow through your radiators really. Unfortunately, I can't guide you much on this because radiator balancing is the most odious and thankless task - you balance for full load and as soon as you get to part load, it's ruined. But you want to drop as much heat across each rad as possible.

I think you'll be fine on the hot water side. Though i would really consider a non-crustacean for your next wife.
 
Associate
Joined
19 Nov 2021
Posts
998
Location
Portsmouth
I find it interesting :) so it'll completely depends on how well your TRVs are operating. You want a really slow flow through your radiators really. Unfortunately, I can't guide you much on this because radiator balancing is the most odious and thankless task - you balance for full load and as soon as you get to part load, it's ruined. But you want to drop as much heat across each rad as possible.

I think you'll be fine on the hot water side. Though i would really consider a non-crustacean for your next wife.
:cry:
Nah mate, this is my second go at it and she's definitely a keeper!
The usage from showering etc (ie, our summer usage) is actually really low (like <80kwh/month), so I'm not too bothered about that to be honest. It's the heating that's the bear.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Apr 2014
Posts
29,973
Location
Chadsville
I sleep in clothes..... my bedding doesn't get dirty.... apart from my pillows that I wash often

do you build a personal file on everyone like some KGB agent ?
Tell me you don't have sex without telling me you don't have sex.

Jokes aside, changing your bedding every 1-2 months is:
disgustang-disgusting.gif
 
Caporegime
Joined
22 Nov 2005
Posts
45,531
Tell me you don't have sex without telling me you don't have sex.
I already said I'm single.

I don't really care, I've got kids, had the sex tens of thousands of times.

I don't go anywhere to meet a partner, I don't really want one either

I think 2019 around December was the last time I had sex, unless your 15 it's not really a big deal

BTW being single saves you a hell of a lot of money ;)
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 Jan 2010
Posts
32,738
Location
Llaneirwg
I think I need to look into a smart thermostat solution. Unfortunately I know less than zero about central heating and how it works at this point :(
I'm guessing you'd recommend tado - are there any other solutions worth looking at?

I believe there was one other I think it was hive. There's a few threads in the household forum here.

I'd still go with tado. I think its been great. Took a month or so to get it running well.

Obviously main issue is you are monitoring temps near the radiator. So you have to offset. But this is true of either system.
 
Caporegime
Joined
22 Nov 2005
Posts
45,531
It's quite important unless you're asexual:
It's honestly not really that important. most couples aren't having sex all that often anyway especially ones around 40 like me

what are you on once a week? once a fortnight? any time I've been in a relationship my sex drive has always been a big issue for the woman.

so I just save my self the hassle from now on and won't bother finding one.

if your on once a week you might as well be single
 
Associate
Joined
19 Nov 2021
Posts
998
Location
Portsmouth
I believe there was one other I think it was hive. There's a few threads in the household forum here.

I'd still go with tado. I think its been great. Took a month or so to get it running well.

Obviously main issue is you are monitoring temps near the radiator. So you have to offset. But this is true of either system.
Thanks
I see tado also do a room thermostat so you can work around that offset if you have a troublesome room/radiator
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 Jan 2010
Posts
32,738
Location
Llaneirwg
Standby for me is not worth worrying about.
House hits 70w with everything that can be on standby on standby.

This includes.
Fridge and freezer (obviously)
Microwave clock
Cooker clock
Desk tube clock (probably get damaged if on and off)
TV
Router
Various chargers (phone, controller, laptop)
Printer
Google nest home (x2)
Google nest cameras (x3)
Cooker hood
Robot vacuum


If I bought smart plugs or went round turning these off and on every day it would probably take half an hour.
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 Jan 2010
Posts
32,738
Location
Llaneirwg
We don't wash our clothes every wear. Certainly not jeans.

Basically if it smells it gets washed.
If I'm sat in my office ill absolutely wear that t shirt another day.
Jeans can easily go a month.
Sports clothes every time
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 Jan 2010
Posts
32,738
Location
Llaneirwg
Thanks
I see tado also do a room thermostat so you can work around that offset if you have a troublesome room/radiator

Yeah these are expensive.
I have some for non trv rooms.

One in the bathroom with the heated towel rail. And one in the hallway where the radiator doesn't have a trv (as usually one radiator doesn't have one for safety)

One could probably go in the kitchen tbh as it's a big room
 
Caporegime
Joined
5 Sep 2010
Posts
25,568
I sleep in clothes..... my bedding doesn't get dirty.... apart from my pillows that I wash often
You don't wash your clothes very often so it probably does.

do you build a personal file on everyone like some KGB agent ?
No, but special contributions do stick in the mind.

I don't really care, I've got kids, had the sex tens of thousands of times.
At least twice a day, every day, for 25 years. Good going.
 
Back
Top Bottom